Bluestreak: Suo? [5:03pm] Bluestreak: p [5:03pm] Sayyida: how are you guys doing? [5:04pm] kusanagi: better-ish. the meds are kicked in and kicking my butt, to put it softly. [5:04pm] Sayyida: ha. I have the sick today, I just cant take antibiotics for it [5:04pm] Bluestreak: I am much better. Supplements are helping [5:04pm] Sayyida: beans [5:05pm] Sayyida: well I am going to pass the lead to kusanagi and let it go from there [5:05pm] kusanagi: Sure thing [5:06pm] kusanagi: So, it just went out to the hello address, but Sayyida and I have been working on the code of conduct, and it looks like the goal of June 30 for its completion will be hit. [5:06pm] • kusanagi throws confetti. [5:06pm] Sayyida: *clap clap* [5:06pm] kusanagi: Bluestreak, I know it just went out, but would you mind taking a look at it? [5:09pm] Bluestreak: looking [5:09pm] kusanagi: take your time [5:10pm] Bluestreak: Pretty standard. [5:11pm] Bluestreak: I have nothing to add to it. [5:11pm] kusanagi: Any input on it? We've been bouncing around on it, and it's been a delayed telephone game since we're all sick (who's to blame, i'm not yet sure ahah) [5:12pm] Bluestreak: Seems to cover everything. [5:13pm] kusanagi: Ah, okay, cool. So I'll get it out to SAB, and this coming week, we'll announce a meeting for next wednesday to formally approve it and get working on the remake of the trash fire that is bylaws. [5:14pm] Sayyida: sounds good by me. I'm proud of it it's like my baby hahaha [5:15pm] Bluestreak: [5:15pm] kusanagi: Uh, because it is. You did the lion's share of it, and it's perfect. We need to credit the sources, and it'll go on the site on approval [5:15pm] kusanagi: lol [5:15pm] Bluestreak: Next wednesday is the…28th? [5:15pm] Bluestreak: so this wed? [5:16pm] kusanagi: Nonono, next week [5:16pm] kusanagi: this week is hectic, and it's short notice, imo [5:16pm] Bluestreak: So the say after the 4th? [5:16pm] Bluestreak: Will ppl still be out of town? [5:17pm] kusanagi: July 6 [5:17pm] Bluestreak: ah [5:17pm] Bluestreak: OK [5:17pm] kusanagi: After that's approved, it'll apply to everyone, including us. Especially us. [5:18pm] Bluestreak: I have an emergency. [5:18pm] Bluestreak: I am out of coffee. [5:18pm] Bluestreak: Like none in the house. [5:18pm] kusanagi: smile.amazon.com lol [5:18pm] Bluestreak: lol [5:18pm] Sayyida: wait... [5:18pm] Bluestreak: I am not leaving [5:18pm] Bluestreak: Just ktvetching [5:18pm] kusanagi: For a second there I got nervous [5:19pm] Bluestreak: lol [5:19pm] kusanagi: lol [5:19pm] Bluestreak: I was just explaining why I sound like a lump. [5:19pm] kusanagi: I got you; I've been lacking caffeine all week because I got sick, now I'm on meds and I have a nice cuppa.. It's like I'm all better. [5:20pm] Sayyida: heh I need my tea. There is no such thing right now, at least one I will bother drinking [5:21pm] kusanagi: So, once those are approved, they'll be in for everyone, escpecially us. We're the public face of the party, and we need to conduct ourselves in an appropriate manner as such. [5:22pm] Bluestreak: I don’t see why. [5:22pm] kusanagi: Lately there have been a number of complaints about content that's being posted to your personal profile, Bluestreak, and we've gotten emails and messages about it. [5:22pm] Bluestreak: I don’t think it will cause even a ripple. [5:23pm] Sayyida: I have even felt awkward posting on some of the posts [5:23pm] Bluestreak: So if I want to keep my position, I to stop dicsussing my concerns about feminism? [5:23pm] Bluestreak: Because that is bullying. The same thing that happened to Nina Paley. [5:24pm] kusanagi: That's not what I'm asking at all. [5:24pm] Bluestreak: Well why don’t you be clear? [5:24pm] kusanagi: I am. [5:24pm] Bluestreak: No you’re not. [5:25pm] kusanagi: There are concerns coming in that a lot of the transgender discussion posts are coming off as anti-transgender. I can understand the sentiment the complaints have, but I also acknowledge that there is a viable discussion to be had. [5:26pm] Bluestreak: “concerns” you pressure. [5:26pm] Bluestreak: mean [5:26pm] kusanagi: No, I got it right the first time. [5:26pm] Bluestreak: Hillary Clinton dithered about gay marriage for 20 years, still I got death threats for supporting Jill Stein. [5:27pm] Bluestreak: Well, they aren’t aren’t anti-trans gender. [5:27pm] Bluestreak: What are you asking of me? [5:27pm] Bluestreak: Say it. [5:27pm] Sayyida: we are asking you to tone it down. [5:28pm] Bluestreak: No. It’s my page. [5:28pm] Sayyida: it is your personal page yes [5:28pm] Sayyida: but you are also a representive to us [5:28pm] Bluestreak: I can add “opinions expressed here are my own” to my blurb. [5:28pm] Sayyida: you are a face of us [5:29pm] Bluestreak: No. It’s my page. Why am I a Pirate if I have to censor myself? [5:29pm] Sayyida: it is not private [5:29pm] Bluestreak: That’s how I roll. [5:29pm] kusanagi: Because it's creating an environment that others, who are also Pirate, are uncomfortable in. [5:29pm] Sayyida: it isn't private. you are saying this on a public location and you are tied to the USPP and MAPP [5:29pm] Bluestreak: Is there anything else you discuss in this meeting? [5:29pm] Bluestreak: I am not tied to MAPP [5:30pm] Bluestreak: I left the sexist MAPP [5:30pm] kusanagi: MAPP also was emailed about it [5:31pm] Bluestreak: Is this Jamie talking> [5:31pm] Bluestreak: ? [5:31pm] Bluestreak: He went to you? [5:31pm] kusanagi: no, the email was forwarded to me [5:31pm] Sayyida: same [5:31pm] Bluestreak: From? [5:31pm] Bluestreak: Who forwarded it? [5:32pm] Bluestreak: How about some transparency>? [5:32pm] Bluestreak: I might as well be a Green the way things work in this organization. [5:32pm] Sayyida: it was transparent if I read it right [5:32pm] Bluestreak: “Faceless accusations” Can you we GET more fascist? [5:33pm] kusanagi: I think it was Steve who forwarded it. [5:33pm] Bluestreak: Who SENT it? [5:33pm] Sayyida: Bluestreak, breathe. [5:33pm] Bluestreak: Steve has declared jihad on me and drove me out of the MAPP [5:33pm] kusanagi: I wasn't given the name of the complanant, but given that the email was identifical to a message sent to the USPP fb page, I was able to tell who it was [5:34pm] Bluestreak: Did you hear what I said about Steve? [5:34pm] kusanagi: Steve is also saying you drove him out. [5:34pm] Bluestreak: I do want to add to the code of conduct: The code shall not be used to perform personal vendettas/ [5:34pm] Bluestreak: Theres. [5:34pm] Sayyida: There is a published blog post having plenty to say about why he no longer wants to be with the pirate party [5:34pm] Bluestreak: You can read the emails. HE drove ME out. [5:35pm] Bluestreak: You just have to read them. [5:35pm] kusanagi: There is no personal vendetta in action. [5:35pm] Bluestreak: I beg to differ [5:35pm] Sayyida: Bluestreak, listen we are asking you to tone down the divisive posts [5:35pm] Sayyida: you are a face of the USPP [5:36pm] Sayyida: if any other political person had posted something nasty on twitter or fb on a personal level [5:36pm] Sayyida: well it happens and we see how that goes [5:36pm] Bluestreak: Dems and Reps do it all the time. [5:36pm] Bluestreak: And if I refuse? [5:36pm] Sayyida: this is not a vendetta nor is this uncalled for [5:37pm] Sayyida: if they do it all the time, and we as a party can't learn from their mistakes then what good are we? [5:37pm] Sayyida: we as a party should not be as low as them and we are trying to be as open as possible [5:37pm] kusanagi: Saying there is a personal vendetta in action when I see the complaints and I'm being asked what is going on by people outside of MA, I'm sure it's no personal vendetta. [5:37pm] kusanagi: https://www.facebook.com/marylandpirates/ for example [5:37pm] papegaai: Title: Maryland Pirate Party (at www.facebook.com) [5:39pm] Bluestreak: What is wrong with that? [5:39pm] Sayyida: I called the meeting because I see this being a possible problem. If we can't create this enviorment and keep it honest and clean more or less than how are we any better than the current white house people tweeting and posting away [5:39pm] Bluestreak: Titlle nine is for women becuase biological women can’t get scholoarships otherwise. [5:40pm] Bluestreak: There is nothing wrong with what I said, except that I resisted. [5:40pm] Bluestreak: You think I don’t understand about genderstudies? I’ve been a liberal since 1928! [5:41pm] Bluestreak: You ask THEM to tone it down. [5:41pm] Sayyida: didn't know you were that old. [5:41pm] Sayyida: They are not a face of the USPP [5:41pm] kusanagi: So merit doesn't matter, and I was offered half my tuition at my top-choice school just because I was a woman, not because of my grades and ability. [5:41pm] Bluestreak: That happes for POC aas well! [5:42pm] Bluestreak: That is a GOOD thing that happened for you. [5:42pm] Bluestreak: I’m 51 [5:42pm] Sayyida: 19 28? [5:43pm] Sayyida: thats a side topic [5:43pm] Bluestreak: This is such an important issue. We have death threats and rape threats from men over feminism for years and now they are coming from transwomen too. Now there are two fronts. [5:43pm] Sayyida: lets stick to the current [5:43pm] Bluestreak: It’s all part of the discussion. [5:44pm] Sayyida: This is a discussion on Code of Conduct and how we need to keep it. [5:44pm] Sayyida: We've had complaints and we are asking you to tone it down [5:44pm] Sayyida: we are not here to discuss gender studies ect [5:45pm] Bluestreak: Code of conduct should not apply to people’s personal opinions outside of official communications about Pirate Policy. [5:45pm] Bluestreak: Tell the complainers that. [5:46pm] Bluestreak: Is there anything else to discuss? [5:46pm] Sayyida: kusanagi, ? [5:46pm] Sayyida: we can't just tell the "complainers" to take yours as yours [5:47pm] kusanagi: It's literally impossible. [5:47pm] kusanagi: You're a public person now. [5:47pm] Sayyida: when a rep from anyother head of anything says something when they are a part of ___ they land in hot water and end up representing the rest of the whatever [5:47pm] kusanagi: What you say can and will be used to attack USPP as a whole. [5:47pm] Bluestreak: And this is the most attention we have ever had. [5:47pm] kusanagi: bullfuckingshit [5:48pm] kusanagi: did we miss the god damn interviews? [5:48pm] Bluestreak: Code od conduct?^^ [5:48pm] kusanagi: We've had more attention [5:48pm] kusanagi: but it was also more positive attention [5:48pm] Bluestreak: I am not changing. I am not stepping down. Anything else? [5:48pm] Bluestreak: You LOVED my interview. [5:48pm] Bluestreak: I am a KICK ASS Pirate. And you know that this si wrong. [5:49pm] Bluestreak: They are bullies. [5:49pm] kusanagi: They aren't bullies. [5:49pm] kusanagi: I'm talking about the Business Insider interview, the one for the German mag a few years ago -- we had the attention before, and it helped us. [5:50pm] kusanagi: We grew from it. Not a lot, but it helped to push us. [5:50pm] Bluestreak: OK back to the issue. Travis and Jay called me sixist slurs in public. [5:50pm] Bluestreak: sexist. [5:50pm] Bluestreak: Travis. [5:50pm] Bluestreak: No one cares. [5:51pm] Bluestreak: #womenslivesmatter. [5:51pm] kusanagi: Did you speak with anyone from PPCA about McCrea? [5:51pm] kusanagi: Because that reflects on them [5:51pm] kusanagi: He basically left USPP years ago [5:52pm] Bluestreak: No. Because activism is falling apart because of the “callout” culture. [5:52pm] Bluestreak: He is in PPCA [5:52pm] Bluestreak: These “we find you problematic” meetings are a massive time suck. Save it for the evil overlords. [5:53pm] kusanagi: So you didn't say anything about it, and you're upset that no one cared. [5:53pm] Bluestreak: No. I didn’t say I was upset about no one caring. I just said, no one cared. [5:53pm] kusanagi: It's a matter of it reflecting on everyone here. It's a matter from pushing people out from the discussion [5:53pm] Bluestreak: Why should I have to complain about it? It was right in plain sight. [5:54pm] Bluestreak: Are these people IN the Pirate Party? [5:54pm] kusanagi: Not for me -- I have them both blocked. [5:54pm] Bluestreak: How can I be pushing them out. [5:54pm] Bluestreak: ? [5:55pm] kusanagi: There are trans people in the Pirates, but I can't speak for those who haven't said anything. [5:55pm] Bluestreak: I am not anti-trans [5:55pm] Bluestreak: I say that repeatedly [5:55pm] Sayyida: we had people leave [5:55pm] Sayyida: we had people leave [5:55pm] Bluestreak: Who? [5:55pm] Bluestreak: Seriously? Over my personal posts? Who? [5:56pm] Sayyida: at this point does it matter? [5:56pm] Sayyida: point is that people have left [5:56pm] Sayyida: the divisisve posts are getting to divisive [5:57pm] Sayyida: I was told that 6 have left [5:57pm] Bluestreak: “I was told" [5:57pm] Bluestreak: This means nothing. [5:58pm] Bluestreak: “at this point does it matter?” yes it does! [5:58pm] Sayyida: From WIPP we have 2 that have left [5:58pm] Sayyida: and one whos pending [5:58pm] Sayyida: I've had to pull my comments off things because of the link to the discussions. [5:58pm] Bluestreak: You agreed with me until they complained. [5:59pm] Sayyida: no [5:59pm] Bluestreak: I saw your comments. [5:59pm] Sayyida: I agreed with the thought, not the words [5:59pm] Sayyida: I have issues on many of those subjects and I am not full for or against [5:59pm] Bluestreak: Did you hear what you said? [5:59pm] kusanagi: the MAPP email says 6 people have left recently [6:00pm] Sayyida: but i can not be a part of the language and the guilt that comes with it [6:00pm] Bluestreak: How else can you convey a thought without words? [6:00pm] Sayyida: there are things you don't say and then there are things you do [6:00pm] kusanagi: As activists, the most powerful weapon we have are those words. [6:00pm] Sayyida: discression is a good thing to have [6:00pm] Bluestreak: Forbidding all the words is the path to totalitariasm. [6:00pm] Sayyida: discression is not forbidding [6:01pm] Bluestreak: I [6:01pm] Sayyida: words can kill [6:01pm] Bluestreak: Will [6:01pm] Bluestreak: Post [6:01pm] Bluestreak: and [6:01pm] Bluestreak: comment [6:01pm] Bluestreak: as [6:01pm] Bluestreak: I [6:01pm] Bluestreak: Wish [6:01pm] Bluestreak: No [6:01pm] Bluestreak: Words can kill is [6:01pm] Bluestreak: the argument of oppression [6:02pm] Bluestreak: “Your protests about the war, kills troops" [6:02pm] Bluestreak: “You complaints about police brutaility are the reason that guy killed those cops" [6:02pm] Bluestreak: No. [6:03pm] kusanagi: The argument that "words can kill" means that "the words that are had can lead to adn/or affirm the attitudes that lead to violence against those in marginalized groups" [6:03pm] Bluestreak: I am not saying “tranny” or “fag” [6:03pm] Bluestreak: I am saying trans woman. [6:04pm] Sayyida: words are spoken thought. They can be soft or bold. They can be suggestive or a call to action [6:04pm] Bluestreak: And denying that trans women are the same as xx women. Because they aren’t [6:04pm] Sayyida: that is why words can kill [6:04pm] Bluestreak: No. You are not a Pirate. [6:04pm] kusanagi: Save the "no true Pirate" argument. [6:04pm] Bluestreak: Poilitical discourse must be protected. [6:05pm] Bluestreak: Are we done here. [6:05pm] Bluestreak: ? [6:05pm] Bluestreak: You’ve been clear, I’ve been clear. [6:05pm] Sayyida: we are clear? [6:06pm] K`Tetch: oh, you've been VERY clear about many things Bluestreak [6:06pm] K`Tetch: you want you free to say anything you want, but anyone says anything you don't want, everyone should care, because they're being mean to you [6:06pm] Bluestreak: See? Personl vendatta^^ [6:06pm] K`Tetch was demoted from operator by ChanServ. [6:06pm] K`Tetch: no, just 'personal posts' [6:06pm] K`Tetch: its your whole 'double standard' thing [6:07pm] Bluestreak: I don’t see kusanagi or Sayyida as “being mean" [6:07pm] K`Tetch: very... TRumpian [6:07pm] kusanagi: You just said less than an hour ago that I was bullying. [6:07pm] Bluestreak: Nice try with the conflation [6:07pm] Bluestreak: No. [6:07pm] Bluestreak: Misunderstanding [6:07pm] Bluestreak: I meant that the trans activists are bullying [6:07pm] Bluestreak: I am annoyed yes, but by the situation. [6:08pm] Bluestreak: And I sound angry because I am being STRIDENT. [6:08pm] K`Tetch: 17:23:20 «Bluestreak» So if I want to keep my position, I to stop dicsussing my concerns about feminism? 17:23:47 «Bluestreak» Because that is bullying. The same thing that happened to Nina Paley. incompatible encoding [6:08pm] Bluestreak: Right. Yes. And I just clarified what I meant thanks. [6:08pm] K`Tetch: Sirens should be strident, national party officers should not be [6:08pm] Bluestreak: Do you YOU want to be Secretary? [6:09pm] K`Tetch: Do YOU want to be a Pirate? [6:09pm] K`Tetch: because I'll become secretary if you become a Pirate [6:10pm] K`Tetch: bcause one things been certain, over the last x years, the one thing you've never actually bean, is a pirate, except in name [6:11pm] Bluestreak: I AM a Pirate. [6:11pm] K`Tetch: being a seething mess of opinionated drama is not, and never has been, a Pirate [6:11pm] Bluestreak: You words mean nothing. [6:11pm] Bluestreak: You point to no evidence. [6:12pm] Bluestreak: *I* have been more involved than you have in the past 4 years [6:12pm] Bluestreak: Who is running this meeting kusanagi? [6:12pm] kusanagi: I am. [6:12pm] K`Tetch: if by 'invovled' you mean 'put yourself at the center of more controversies, arguments, messes, fuckups, timewasting, etc. then yes, I'll give you that [6:13pm] Bluestreak: I object to the way he is talking to me [6:13pm] Bluestreak: I request censure. [6:13pm] K`Tetch: *ahem* 'personal opinion', I believe that's the claim you used earlier [6:13pm] Bluestreak: Chair? [6:13pm] kusanagi: I'm here. [6:13pm] K`Tetch: again, a case of 'not for thee, but only for me' from you [6:13pm] kusanagi: Give me a moment, I have to grab me meds. [6:13pm] Bluestreak: I formally request you censure K’Tetch. [6:14pm] kusanagi: For what reason [6:14pm] Bluestreak: Personal attacks! [6:14pm] Bluestreak: “For what reason?” are you kidding me? [6:15pm] K`Tetch: 18:01:46 «Bluestreak» the argument of oppression incompatible encoding [6:15pm] K`Tetch: 18:04:47 «Bluestreak» Poilitical discourse must be protected. incompatible encoding [6:15pm] K`Tetch: 18:04:22 «Bluestreak» No. You are not a Pirate. incompatible encoding [6:16pm] Bluestreak: Discourse, yes, not insults. [6:16pm] K`Tetch: this is an opinion of your activty in your role. If you choose to see that as a personal attack, that speaks more to your inability to deal with critisism, and your lack of suitability for the role than anythign else [6:17pm] kusanagi: the "no true pirate" remark is a way of dismissing a claim because you don't view someone as pirate enough. [6:17pm] kusanagi: K`Tetch, please stand down. [6:17pm] K`Tetch: certainly [6:17pm] Bluestreak: Request censure for “if by 'invovled' you mean 'put yourself at the center of more controversies, arguments, messes, fuckups, timewasting, etc. then yes, I'll give you that” [6:17pm] kusanagi: No person would be insane enough to run this party if they didn't believe in it. [6:18pm] Bluestreak: Or be the secretary. [6:18pm] kusanagi: Run is refering to the board [6:18pm] kusanagi: for most secretaries of the pnc, yes [6:19pm] kusanagi: (laughs at own joke because no one got the reference) [6:19pm] K`Tetch: Did I notice you say you left the MAPP earlier? [6:20pm] Bluestreak: That’s my business. [6:21pm] Bluestreak: I left the organizational bit. I am still a registered Pirate. [6:21pm] Bluestreak: One of the FEW in the country. [6:21pm] Bluestreak: Are we done now? [6:22pm] kusanagi: And we want there to be more [6:22pm] kusanagi: I want everyone to feel welcome in discussions [6:22pm] Bluestreak: You talk about people leaving the party… If I go public with this discussion we will lose people too. [6:23pm] kusanagi: I shouldn't wake up to people asking "why is the secretary posting transphobic things" [6:23pm] Bluestreak: There are just as many people who are angry about the supresion of free speech. [6:23pm] kusanagi: The discussion is already going to be public. [6:23pm] Bluestreak: It [6:23pm] Bluestreak: IS [6:23pm] Bluestreak: NOT [6:23pm] Bluestreak: TRANS [6:23pm] Bluestreak: PHOBIS [6:23pm] kusanagi: Here's the thing about free speech [6:23pm] Bluestreak: c [6:23pm] Bluestreak: It’s pro-female. [6:23pm] Bluestreak: It’s feminism. [6:23pm] kusanagi: No one seems to get that free speech can still have repurcussions. [6:24pm] kusanagi: because that's other people exercising THEIR free speech. [6:24pm] Bluestreak: MEN made the same aregument when feminism started. They STILL make it. [6:24pm] Bluestreak: Femisnist are just “man haters" [6:24pm] Bluestreak: “repersussions” [6:25pm] kusanagi: A general meaning of any sort of response. [6:25pm] Bluestreak: Yes… Like when Cheney wanted to target Seymour Hersh. [6:26pm] Sayyida: I need to step away for a bit. [6:26pm] Bluestreak: Me too. Move to adjourn? [6:30pm] kusanagi: All I'm asking is for is for you to be specifically concerned with the language you use, as it can easily be misconstrued. We're in a decent place to start having things ramp up, and it's happening. I dont want to lose people because things are said that aren't all clear. [6:30pm] kusanagi: As in the meaning behind them [6:30pm] kusanagi: Words are what we have, and a misuse of them? That can be fatal to the movement. [6:31pm] kusanagi: We're still small. This is literally the hardest thing in my life that I've worked on. [6:31pm] Bluestreak: The party? Or this one issue? [6:31pm] kusanagi: the party, of course [6:31pm] Bluestreak: Move to adjourn? **insert from K`Tetch's logs with slight overlap** (for reason see line 397) 18:31:38 «@kusanagi» the party, of course 18:31:48 «Bluestreak» Move to adjourn? 18:34:34 «Sayyida» sorry I am back 18:34:42 «Sayyida» let me catch up and see what I have missed 18:36:03 «Bluestreak» It has been 90 minutes. I really do need to pop out for some coffe. 18:36:27 «Sayyida» I need to add a few things here 18:36:31 «Bluestreak» Also, know that I am not angry with you two personally. I am upset about the current political climate. 18:37:28 «Sayyida» I, if not WE need a pact if you will that you will calm the words 18:37:35 «Bluestreak» No. 18:37:42 «Bluestreak» I am am saying no slurs. 18:37:54 «Bluestreak» I am not using hate speech. 18:38:20 «Bluestreak» I will post what articles I want to post, and let the commenters point out the article’s short comings. 18:38:30 «Bluestreak» Anything else? 18:38:46 «@kusanagi» but the way the words are being used is an issue. 18:38:56 «Bluestreak» Name one word. 18:39:05 «K`Tetch» and often the issues on the articles are.. problematic 18:39:08 «Bluestreak» What they objuect is my logic. 18:39:17 «Bluestreak» It’s pretty damn strong. 18:39:27 «K`Tetch» your logic, or the lack of it? 18:39:36 «Bluestreak» Chair? 18:39:45 «@kusanagi» K`Tetch, stand down 18:40:07 «Bluestreak» The NYTs is problematic. 18:40:20 «Bluestreak» It ourright lies, should I stop citing them? 18:40:37 «Bluestreak» Fox. 18:40:40 «Bluestreak» MSNBC 18:40:59 «Bluestreak» If every article I post must be free of problems, I won’t be able to post anything. 18:41:12 «@kusanagi» You'd have to realize that they push a specific agenda, and then from there, find -their- sources and make your own inferences. 18:41:20 «@kusanagi» That's literally from my PoliSci 101 class. 18:41:56 «Bluestreak» I AM pushing a specific agenda. 18:41:59 «Bluestreak» My own. 18:41:59 «Sayyida» I find the articles that are questionable are fire starters 18:42:11 «Bluestreak» I WANT people to dialog! 18:42:40 «@kusanagi» I hope you mean on your personal page. 18:42:50 «Bluestreak» I have been a firebrand since I got on FB in 2008 and this is the very first time I have been told to tone it down by the PP 18:43:11 «Bluestreak» What does that tell you about the current political climate? 18:43:31 «Bluestreak» I do. And I comment on other people’s public posts. 18:43:36 «Bluestreak» as ME! 18:43:49 «@kusanagi» that's what I wanted to be sure of 18:44:19 «@kusanagi» because it is making people who are pirates uncomfortable 18:44:22 «Bluestreak» I never talk about feminism or gender or homosecuality on USPP FB twitter... 18:44:22 «Bluestreak» Wait 18:44:30 «Bluestreak» Is this why you changed the password? 18:44:44 «Bluestreak» Are you not going to give me the new Twitter password? 18:44:55 «@kusanagi» No, I had a fever dream that Emerson got it because it wasn't changed since 2009. 18:45:16 «Bluestreak» Well, *I* am a Pirate and *their* views are making *ME* uncimfortable. 18:45:18 «Bluestreak» That’s life. 18:45:33 «Bluestreak» OK can I have the new PW now? 18:45:38 «@kusanagi» I'm sorry, but how do you figure 18:46:03 «Bluestreak» May I have the new password now? 18:46:07 «@kusanagi» How are their views, which they haven't expressed to you, makig you uncomfortable? 18:47:06 «Bluestreak» Where did all the text go? 18:47:33 «Bluestreak» Hello? 18:47:40 «Bluestreak» May I have the new password? 18:47:59 «Sayyida» what do you mean loss of text? Bluestreak: Where did all the text go? [6:47pm] Bluestreak: Hello? [6:47pm] Bluestreak: May I have the new password? [6:48pm] Sayyida: what do you mean loss of text? [6:49pm] Bluestreak: I lost that last 10 lines or so. I was copying and pasting but when I pressed the issue of the PW all my text vanished. [6:49pm] Bluestreak: So I can’t post those 10 lines. [6:50pm] Bluestreak: May I have the new USPP password now? [6:51pm] K`Tetch: that thing about being the secretary still good, because I have the full text [6:51pm] Bluestreak: More like 20. [6:51pm] Bluestreak: You are not the one under assault here. [6:51pm] kusanagi: No one is under assault. [6:51pm] Bluestreak: Oh please. I am from Andrew certainly. [6:52pm] kusanagi: K`Tetch, for the love of all that is holy, stand down. [6:53pm] Bluestreak: May I have the new Twitter password now? [6:54pm] kusanagi: I'll give access via tweetdeck [6:54pm] Bluestreak: I will assume the answer is no. A violation of your own policies. [6:54pm] Bluestreak: You think I will lock you out, like I locked out Jay? [6:54pm] Bluestreak: That is not how I roll. [6:55pm] Bluestreak: Shame on you. [6:55pm] Bluestreak: Now I am angry at you personally. [6:55pm] kusanagi: You didn't lock out Jay. [6:55pm] Bluestreak: No YOU did. [6:55pm] kusanagi: And it's easier for me to manage. [6:55pm] Bluestreak: With Kael’s help. [6:55pm] kusanagi: Nope, I didn't do it at all. [6:56pm] Bluestreak: I have the messages. [6:56pm] kusanagi: We need a more secure infrastructure. Part of that is password sharing.. rather, not password sharing. [6:56pm] kusanagi: if anyone should be practicing good infosec, it should be me. [6:56pm] Bluestreak: “Coincidentally” [6:57pm] kusanagi: No coincidence. [6:57pm] Bluestreak: If I knew you were going to do this, I would have not nominated you chair. [6:57pm] kusanagi: Do what? Not share passwords, but offer access via tweetdeck? [6:57pm] Bluestreak: Or voted. [6:57pm] Bluestreak: Why does only the chiar get the password. [6:58pm] Bluestreak: Did you discuss this with the board before acting unilaterally? [6:58pm] Bluestreak: No. [6:58pm] Bluestreak: Violation. [6:58pm] kusanagi: because for now we don't have a specific layout as to who gets anything. [6:58pm] kusanagi: And again [6:58pm] Bluestreak: Unitlateral action is not Pirate. [6:58pm] kusanagi: the password was from 2009 [6:58pm] kusanagi: at least [6:58pm] Bluestreak: Irrelevant. [6:58pm] Bluestreak: Then give me the new one. [6:58pm] kusanagi: it's practicing good opsec [6:58pm] Bluestreak: I am secretaty. [6:58pm] kusanagi: I'm not giving out the password [6:59pm] K`Tetch: that is good security practice, which is a core pirate philosophy [6:59pm] Bluestreak: Because of my politcal views [6:59pm] Bluestreak: And my refusal to acquiece. [6:59pm] kusanagi: I'm not giving it to anyone. [6:59pm] kusanagi: lol [6:59pm] Bluestreak: Doens’t matter what you say now, anyone reading this will see it. [6:59pm] Bluestreak: Did we vote on you having sole access to the Twitter? No. [6:59pm] Bluestreak: Violation. [7:00pm] Bluestreak: I think I can make the “not true Pirate” aregument now. [7:00pm] kusanagi: There is no violation. Part of the job for chair is social media coordinator.. [7:01pm] Bluestreak: Citation? [7:01pm] kusanagi: The bylaws should have it. [7:01pm] Bluestreak: Post it here. [7:01pm] K`Tetch: IIRC, the only actual job of secretary si 'keeping and posting minute notes', and you've already noted you've failed at that today. There's no requirement that I can remember for havning the secretary have social media access [7:02pm] Bluestreak: Keep it up. Andrew. I am shring this widely. [7:02pm] K`Tetch: make sure you get it all, and don't miss [more] lines [7:02pm] kusanagi: The logs will be posted to a pad. [7:03pm] Bluestreak: We are at 2 hours. [7:03pm] Bluestreak: Move to adjourn. [7:03pm] kusanagi: https://wiki.pirate-party.us/w/index.php?title=Pirate_National_Committee_(PNC)/Bylaws&oldid=1142#Officers [7:04pm] Sayyida: I will not yeld until i have some pact saying you will tone it down [7:04pm] Bluestreak: No, [7:04pm] kusanagi: Specifically, "They will speak to the press representing the USPP as a spokesperson." Social media does count in there, as it's literally our voice [7:04pm] Bluestreak: You can’t keep us here all night. [7:04pm] Sayyida: I do not want a lose cannon firing in the wrong direction [7:05pm] Bluestreak: That is your interpretation. I disagree with you kusanagi. [7:05pm] Bluestreak: We are at two hours. Move to adjourn. [7:05pm] K`Tetch: "The Quartermaster or Secretary, who shall keep records of the minutes and logs for meetings, tally votes, and maintain a database of the members who compose the PNC as set forth in Art. III §1." <-- point to social media access there please incompatible encoding [7:06pm] Bluestreak: : [7:06pm] Bluestreak: We are at two hours. Move to adjourn. [7:06pm] kusanagi: It was previously discussed, maybe in 2012 or 2013, that chair also is social media director. It's literally a spokesperson position. [7:06pm] K`Tetch: if you've got other thigns to do, no-one's barred your door, your computer is not locked in here [7:06pm] Bluestreak: : [7:06pm] Bluestreak: We are at two hours. Move to adjourn. [7:06pm] Bluestreak: I am following procedeure. [7:06pm] Bluestreak: We are at two hours. Move to adjourn. [7:06pm] K`Tetch: which proceedure? [7:06pm] Bluestreak: We are at two hours. Move to adjourn. [7:07pm] Bluestreak: The police often tell innocent suspects that all they have to do to go home is confess to something they didn’t do. [7:07pm] Bluestreak: Sorry “sometimes” [7:08pm] K`Tetch: as the secretary, can you point me to the written policies concernign length of meeting [7:08pm] Bluestreak: Bad apple [7:08pm] Bluestreak: We are at two hours. Move to adjourn. [7:09pm] kusanagi: There is no length maximum. [7:10pm] kusanagi: PNC meetings lasted for hours at one point.. [7:10pm] kusanagi: And this is just the board. Not a formal PNC meeting. [7:10pm] K`Tetch: 3-4 hours at some points, it meant stuff got done [7:10pm] kusanagi: It did. [7:10pm] K`Tetch: if you need to go, go, there's still 2 board members here to keep it quorate [7:10pm] Sayyida: I only was at one of those meetings [7:10pm] kusanagi: Now it's a scramble to do more in less time. That's way harder. [7:10pm] kusanagi: lol [7:11pm] kusanagi: Count your blessings, Meg. [7:11pm] Bluestreak: What else do we need to discuss? [7:11pm] Bluestreak: I’ve answered your questions. [7:11pm] K`Tetch: even the ppuk BoG mumble meetings rarely took less than an hour, and [7:12pm] K`Tetch: ok, what about the net neutrality consultation [7:13pm] K`Tetch: should uspp submit a response? [7:13pm] kusanagi: YES [7:13pm] kusanagi: we need to that's our thing abd should own it [7:14pm] Sayyida: I can hop on a task force or whatever later on that note [7:14pm] Sayyida: Until we have reached an accord, I can not and will not move to end this [7:15pm] Bluestreak: But I have given you my answer. [7:15pm] K`Tetch: I'm always wary of 'task forces' [7:15pm] kusanagi: K`Tetch, it's more of a rough grouping of people [7:16pm] Bluestreak: Make the meeting indefintite so that if I leave I fail at my job as Secretary and you have a reason other than “we don’t like her political opinions” to make me step down? [7:16pm] Sayyida: I just need a "group" or what not so i can bounce things [7:16pm] K`Tetch: maybe if all members write their own bits which they can file, state parties can file a collection of their state members bits, and the uspp can file a collection of them all [7:17pm] Sayyida: yikes and let the mess just sit as a mess? [7:17pm] kusanagi: it's easy enough to sort out. [7:17pm] K`Tetch: if you have a need to leave, that's perfectly understandable, and someone else will just fill in if needed [7:17pm] kusanagi: At least one memeber of the board will have the log. [7:17pm] kusanagi: That's never, ever been an issue. [7:17pm] kusanagi: Not once [7:17pm] Bluestreak: Neither has the twitter password. [7:17pm] Bluestreak: Suddenly it is. [7:18pm] kusanagi: it was [7:18pm] kusanagi: a) completely insecure [7:18pm] Bluestreak: Everything about this meeting has been hostile. [7:18pm] kusanagi: b) shared by at least 10 people [7:18pm] kusanagi: c) hasn't been changed since at least 2009 [7:18pm] Bluestreak: I have to use the restroom. BRB. [7:19pm] kusanagi: it was an issue and it was addressed. access was reoffered in the form of tweetdeck to manage password-less sharing [7:19pm] kusanagi: It is in the scope of my duty as chair. [7:22pm] kusanagi: Social media was in the scope of chair when I was chair previously -- so I don't see how it would suddenly change. [7:22pm] K`Tetch: and in the same way, access is not in the official scope of the secretary [7:23pm] K`Tetch: anyway, we're in 4 different states, and I'm assuming we've all had net access for 10+ years, right? [7:24pm] kusanagi: I'd think so. [7:25pm] K`Tetch: one of pai's key claims against Title2 is that its harming innovation and rollouts - if you catalogue rollouts/upgrades/prices over those last 10 (or better yet, 20) years, you can weaken his claims [7:26pm] kusanagi: this is true [7:26pm] Sayyida: I had no idea the USPP was over 10yrs old [7:26pm] K`Tetch: yeah, 11 at the start of the month [7:26pm] Sayyida: talk about being a n00b [7:27pm] K`Tetch: end of ocober will be 11 years since I took over and started running it from josh [7:27pm] Sayyida: so 06 is the birth? [7:27pm] K`Tetch: 9who was also wisconsin, now I think about it) [7:27pm] kusanagi: 06-06-06 [7:27pm] Sayyida: HA [7:28pm] kusanagi: I know where i was that day -- working a shitty mall job with albums getting released that day by all sorts of death metal groups. [7:28pm] Sayyida: I was 16. That summer was amazing, so much crap, so much drama, so much running.... [7:28pm] Sayyida: I don't remember if I was at ozzfest or familyvalues that year [7:28pm] kusanagi: I was at family values. [7:28pm] kusanagi: Friends with Jon Davis. [7:28pm] Sayyida: flyleaf? [7:28pm] kusanagi: [7:28pm] Sayyida: no way [7:29pm] kusanagi: I have a funny story about lacey, actually. She's a sweetheart. [7:29pm] kusanagi: Yep [7:29pm] K`Tetch: yeah , well, 6-6-06 was deliberate, it was technically formed 1-6-06 (same as france, germany, netherlands, denmark, canada, austria and spain, day after the TPB raid), but they waited 5 days for 'that date' [7:29pm] kusanagi: haven't really talked much to him in the past few years, but a mutual is getting us back in touch. [7:30pm] kusanagi: yeah [7:30pm] kusanagi: lol [7:30pm] Sayyida: lacey was my sisters favorite singer at the time, I'm partical to amy lee so sorry? [7:30pm] Sayyida: I got the whole bands autograph for her that year [7:33pm] • K`Tetch doesn't do concerts and music [7:33pm] K`Tetch: (or autographs) [7:33pm] kusanagi: But yes, Net neutrality.. would you be willing to do the write up? [7:33pm] kusanagi: I know that's really -your- thing, since you've done a LOT on it. [7:35pm] K`Tetch: i'm struggling to do mine [7:35pm] K`Tetch: struggling not with content, but actually getting the time and mental gear to sit down and write [7:35pm] K`Tetch: (which is why most of my consultations get written int he 24 hours before deadline) [7:36pm] Sayyida: I write, I just need the push. I am better and reaserching [7:37pm] Zongva left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [7:37pm] K`Tetch: research si also good [7:37pm] kusanagi: I'm booked almost all day tomorrow [7:37pm] Sayyida: I'm not happy with my spelling an such falling. After learning (one completeld and half started) other languges its just killing my writing [7:37pm] K`Tetch: the other thing is I don't want to basically write two contributions [7:37pm] kusanagi: I have no issue writing, just researching is.. a pain [7:37pm] kusanagi: K`Tetch, That i get [7:39pm] K`Tetch: gigi also wrote a really good guide for this https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/06/saving-net-neutrality-tips-for-writing-persuasive-comments-to-the-fcc/ [7:39pm] papegaai: Title: How to write a meaningful FCC comment supporting net neutrality | Ars Technica (at arstechnica.com) [7:40pm] kusanagi: Maybe incorporate that too. [7:40pm] K`Tetch: the gist is thogh, focus on facts, talk about what it means, how it affects you, as much isp-related facts and data as possible [7:40pm] K`Tetch: because its a foregone conclusion that pai's gong to push the repeal through [7:41pm] K`Tetch: HOWEVER regulatiosn require that his actions be based on evidence, and based on the evidence submitted in consultations [7:41pm] kusanagi: Right [7:41pm] K`Tetch: (and at least one senator has suggested that pai stating up front before the conultation even opened that he has a decision in mine is breaking the law) [7:41pm] K`Tetch: http://thehill.com/policy/technology/331653-key-senate-dem-the-fccs-net-neutrality-proposal-rollout-might-not-have-been [7:42pm] Zongva joined the chat room. [7:42pm] K`Tetch: (and you know he's in the shit when the Hill takes a democrat's claim seriously and doesn't snark it or counter it with 3 republicans) [7:43pm] kusanagi: true [7:43pm] K`Tetch: lost count how many factual comments i've had deleted there [7:44pm] You left the chat by being disconnected from the server. [7:44pm] You reconnected to the server. [7:44pm] You rejoined the room. [7:44pm] Bluestreak: I am back [7:44pm] Bluestreak: My GI symptoms have returned [7:45pm] kusanagi: I'm not surprised, but like I said before, you have to be aware of the discourse and look at what agenda they push, too. [7:45pm] Bluestreak: I guess this confirms my family’s suspicions that that are stress related. [7:45pm] K`Tetch: they never did respond to my columnist submission [7:45pm] kusanagi: if it's factual, but against what they push, of course they'd delete it. [7:46pm] K`Tetch: oh, fun news, I will be speaking on a few panels labor day weekend again, including one with Kurt Opsahl (EFF general counsel) on the Techdirt lawsuit [7:46pm] kusanagi: So, Sayyida, maybe you do the research, I'll write up a NN post for the site by.. Wednesday? To pub by friday [7:47pm] kusanagi: ish [7:47pm] K`Tetch: no need to rush quite so much. Iniyial comments are due by July 16 and reply comments by August 16 [7:47pm] kusanagi: I'd rather it be done sooner, because if we're given the opportunity to slack, we.. uh.. we take full advantage of it. [7:47pm] kusanagi: to put it nicely. [7:48pm] K`Tetch: much like I am [7:48pm] Sayyida: yea i can [7:48pm] Sayyida: send me an email of what i am looking for and such [7:48pm] Sayyida: ill get the info [7:48pm] Sayyida: [7:48pm] kusanagi: and me being sick really shouldn't be an excuse [7:48pm] kusanagi: I was running this with a full busted hand. I should be doing more. [7:48pm] K`Tetch: I did this a few eyars ago if it helps, was for the video truck FFTF put outside the FCC offices https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWNNrkb9KzI [7:49pm] Sayyida: Bluestreak, good to see you back [7:50pm] Bluestreak: I’ll chime in if you talk about anything interesting. [7:51pm] Bluestreak: I timed out while I was unwell. [7:51pm] Bluestreak: Coming up on 3 hours. [7:51pm] K`Tetch: thats ok, its only 1950 [7:52pm] Bluestreak: I have to feed my son. [7:53pm] Bluestreak: I have to go to the store to get the ingredients. I tols him I would feed hin at 6 [7:53pm] Bluestreak: He’s not happy with me now, after two sliced of cold pizza [7:53pm] Bluestreak: This is really how Liz and Meg, you want to play me? [7:54pm] Bluestreak: After what a friend I have been to both of you? [7:54pm] Sayyida: this is not a personal fight [7:54pm] Sayyida: this is business [7:54pm] Sayyida: I wear several hats, this is just the business hat [7:55pm] Bluestreak: Personal or not, it is unwarranted. [7:55pm] kusanagi: If you had something else to attend to, you could simply have said as such. [7:55pm] Bluestreak: You all think you are so pure but y’all play dirty. [7:55pm] Sayyida: by business it is [7:55pm] kusanagi: No one is playing dirty. [7:55pm] Bluestreak: I moved to adjourn 20 times [7:55pm] K`Tetch: and no-one else seconded. [7:55pm] Bluestreak: re“If you had something else to attend to, you could simply have said as such.” [7:56pm] K`Tetch: we're all still working. If you've got other thigns to do, WE'RE NOT STOPPING YOU [7:56pm] Bluestreak: Yes talking about bands and autographs. [7:56pm] K`Tetch: we understand about life and other commitments [7:56pm] Bluestreak: It’s called a philibuster [7:56pm] Sayyida: I wanted this to be handled by us three I had no idea k'tech would be on [7:56pm] K`Tetch: that was actually while I was looking something up, and its a fillibuster [7:57pm] Sayyida: I did not want to bring this discussion to the whole PNC meeting [7:57pm] Sayyida: nor did i want to bring it to the SAB [7:57pm] K`Tetch: I wasn't on, until just before I spoke, I was off having a fun birthday time [7:57pm] Bluestreak: Why are we having it here, then? [7:57pm] Sayyida: that would be playing dirty and that would be an emotional response [7:57pm] kusanagi: After the CoC is in effect, it will have to be brought to the PNC as a whole if another complaint is made. [7:57pm] Sayyida: we were waiting for your to pop back in [7:57pm] Sayyida: now that you have, lets settle the matter at hand [7:58pm] Bluestreak: It IS settled [7:58pm] Bluestreak: Refusing to adjourn is akin to a filibuster. [7:58pm] Bluestreak: The F is especially directed at Andrew. [7:59pm] Sayyida: if it was settled i would have yelded [7:59pm] K`Tetch: no, that would be if we were purposefully dragingin something out in order to hit a time limit by which a motion, discussion or other process would then fail [7:59pm] Bluestreak: If you ask and I say no then it is settled [7:59pm] kusanagi: Additionally, other discussions were had that are also relevant to the pirates, too. [7:59pm] Bluestreak: Thus the term “akin" [7:59pm] kusanagi: like a nn post. [8:00pm] K`Tetch: I did have one thing I hoped you could clarify though Bluestreak, you said "18:41:56 «Bluestreak» I AM pushing a specific agenda. 18:41:59 «Bluestreak» My own. <-- did you mean that on your social media profiles, or on the USPP social media profiles? incompatible encoding [8:01pm] Bluestreak: On my own. [8:01pm] kusanagi: She clarified that, she meant her own profile [8:01pm] K`Tetch: I think li tried to clarify, but it may have gotten lost in the crosstalk [8:01pm] K`Tetch: ok, good [8:01pm] Bluestreak: People complianed about my sources cited on USPP, I stopped citing those sources. [8:01pm] Bluestreak: No argement. [8:01pm] Bluestreak: Even though I HAD an argument. [8:01pm] Bluestreak: I just complied, because USPP is not my page. [8:02pm] Bluestreak: You are just beng a troll Andrew. [8:02pm] Bluestreak: Happy Birthday. [8:02pm] K`Tetch: thank you [8:02pm] Bluestreak: More like an inquisition? [8:03pm] Bluestreak: You are free to go if you just confess. [8:03pm] Bluestreak: CONFESS [8:03pm] Bluestreak: CONFESS HERETIC! [8:03pm] kusanagi: my god. [8:03pm] Bluestreak: I’m not wrong. [8:04pm] Bluestreak: I am a gender orthodoxy apostate. Like Nina Paley, the leading Pirat artist in the US right now. [8:04pm] Sayyida: Bluestreak, let me give you some advice on rehetoic. If you come off high strung and emotional and lack of restriant you are going to be taken for a mile and you won't be able to live past your words [8:04pm] kusanagi: it's not a god damn inquisition. [8:04pm] Sayyida: It is from expierance I speak from [8:04pm] Bluestreak: It’s a chat room inquistion. [8:05pm] Bluestreak: Why would I be high strung after 3 hours and 5 minutes of “CONFESS!”? [8:06pm] K`Tetch: i'm alo concerned aboutt his 'voter fraud' panel Trump's trying to set up [8:06pm] Bluestreak: I am as well. [8:06pm] kusanagi: No one is asking a confession. [8:07pm] K`Tetch: democracy in action is getting increasingly difficult to exercise [8:07pm] Bluestreak: Why are we still here then? [8:07pm] Bluestreak: Tell me about it K’Tetch! [8:07pm] K`Tetch: the horrendousness of dealign with [now congresswoman] Handell back in 07-09... [8:07pm] Bluestreak: They passed single payer in VT and a DEMOCRAT gov vetoed it [8:07pm] Sayyida: as someone near 25 years my senior, you should know that behaviour online and the way you talk can be all people see [8:08pm] Sayyida: that is what this is about [8:08pm] K`Tetch: thats within the political process and not what I'm talking abotu Bluestreak [8:08pm] K`Tetch: I'm talking about barriers to political participation [8:08pm] Sayyida: when forms of communicatoin come down to pixels no one can hear a voice or see a movement you make [8:08pm] Bluestreak: They passed legal weed in MA by referendfum and DEMOCRATIC majority legis. voted in viloation of the will of the people to double taxes [8:08pm] Sayyida: no one can see facial expressions [8:09pm] Bluestreak: Why not talk about the process K’Tetch? [8:09pm] Bluestreak: It’s the process that gave us Trump [8:09pm] Bluestreak: Barriers to political participation, yes! [8:09pm] Bluestreak: Does it matter if you can vote, if the people you elect refuse to represent you? [8:10pm] K`Tetch: was the referendum binding, or non-binding? [8:11pm] K`Tetch: i should point out, I'm not referring to any specific votes. I'm talking about the electoral infrastructure. [8:12pm] Bluestreak: Binding. [8:12pm] K`Tetch: or to make an analaogy, I'm talking about the roads, not about specific vehicles that are using it and political decsions about their paths [8:12pm] Bluestreak: As was the RCV ref in Maine, and the legis there is currently working to repeal. [8:12pm] Bluestreak: Don’t patronize me. [8:13pm] Bluestreak: I know how the system works. [8:13pm] Bluestreak: Masplainer. [8:13pm] Bluestreak: Mansplainer [8:13pm] ghostwheel left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [8:14pm] K`Tetch: I'm talking legal rights and abilties to cast votes (voterId and disenfranchisement) I'm talking barriers to participation in party registration, i'm talking viability of candidacy in an era of unclear and overly comples and loophole riddled campaign finance laws [8:14pm] ghostwheel joined the chat room. [8:14pm] Bluestreak: And it doesn’t matter how you vote, if the legislature doens’t do as the constitutents ask. [8:14pm] K`Tetch: if you 'know', then why have you gone off onto significant tangents? [8:14pm] kusanagi: it's not being patronizing, nor mansplaining. [8:14pm] Bluestreak: This whole converstation is a tangent. [8:15pm] Bluestreak: Uh, yes it is. [8:15pm] Bluestreak: Sexist. [8:15pm] Ben left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [8:15pm] Bluestreak: You have a history of abusing me for being outspoken. Because I am a woman. [8:15pm] Hasimir joined the chat room. [8:16pm] Bluestreak: I am being “called out” over my views on feminism. This whole organization is sexist. [8:16pm] Bluestreak: OR [8:16pm] kusanagi: I don't think that's the case. otherwise, there would have been a lot more issues between andrew and I if it were just for gender. [8:16pm] Bluestreak: You are not at all sexist. [8:16pm] Bluestreak: And *I* am not at all transphobic. [8:17pm] Bluestreak: The case could be made that this is a sexist witch hunt. [8:17pm] Bluestreak: Since I am being asked to “tone down” my feminist views. [8:18pm] Sayyida: This can not be a sexist witch hunt if majority of us are not sexist [8:19pm] Sayyida: the organization is sexist? [8:19pm] kusanagi: it's not the views, it's the words in the discussion. the "trans sheep are sheep" meme is a issue [8:19pm] kusanagi: if it's going to be public facing, the USPP has to answer for it. and that comes down to basically me. [8:20pm] K`Tetch: a case could also be made that Shiva Ayyadurai invented email. It'd be a bullshit case full of twisted perseectives, self-servicvign claims and victim-mentalities, but the case could be made. Being able to make 'a' case, doesn't make that case true. [8:20pm] kusanagi: I've been the most visible person in USPP for years. I have to answer when people who work for the party say something that's very out of line with party views. [8:20pm] K`Tetch: also "20:17:50 «Bluestreak» Since I am being asked to “tone down” my feminist views." I believe you're being asked not to conflate YOUR personal views and the official views of the USPP incompatible encoding [8:20pm] Bluestreak: If you can assert my views are transphobic based on what I have said, I can assert you are being sexist based on what you have. [8:21pm] Bluestreak: “I believe you're being asked not to conflate YOUR personal views and the official views of the USPP” I DON’T [8:21pm] Bluestreak: Nice attempt to conflate me with another asshole [8:21pm] Bluestreak: I said I would CHANGE my PERSONAL page to say “views are my own" [8:22pm] K`Tetch: is my belief an accurate way of stating what the isue has been, kusanagi, Sayyida? [8:22pm] kusanagi: Or not post publicly. [8:22pm] Sayyida: The two, your views and you as a party figure are in one channel [8:22pm] Bluestreak: no. [8:22pm] Bluestreak: i am [8:22pm] Sayyida: they can not be pulled appart [8:22pm] Bluestreak: talking [8:22pm] Bluestreak: to [8:22pm] Bluestreak: the public [8:22pm] Bluestreak: Yes they can! [8:22pm] Sayyida: I can't honestly I can't [8:22pm] Bluestreak: There are anti-abortion dems [8:22pm] Bluestreak: and gun control Rep [8:23pm] Bluestreak: They totally can [8:23pm] Bluestreak: Y’all are wrong. [8:23pm] Bluestreak: Simpla as that. [8:23pm] Bluestreak: My personal is my busienss. [8:24pm] Bluestreak: AND I post NOTHING transphobic! [8:24pm] kusanagi: Except as a public representative of USPP, it becomes USPP's business. [8:24pm] Sayyida: If I didn't know the party and other people and grew up, I wouldn't of been able to realize personal poison vs party poison [8:24pm] kusanagi: And the sheep meme was in fact transphobic. [8:24pm] Bluestreak: I [8:24pm] Bluestreak: post [8:24pm] Bluestreak: nothing [8:24pm] Bluestreak: transphobic [8:24pm] Sayyida: If trump tweets, do you not think the whole world thinks the US is a bunch of idiots? [8:25pm] Bluestreak: I am not Trump [8:25pm] Bluestreak: I am not President [8:25pm] Sayyida: does he not represent the whole country on international matters? [8:25pm] Sayyida: ok let me peg it down a notch [8:25pm] Bluestreak: I say nothing transphobic. [8:25pm] Sayyida: if kushiner says something rude and crazy (er than normal) do you not think people are seeing him as more of an idiot? [8:26pm] Sayyida: he is part of an administraton [8:26pm] Sayyida: you are [8:26pm] Sayyida: your PUBLIC PERSONAL facebook page [8:26pm] Sayyida: is visabile [8:26pm] Sayyida: open [8:26pm] Sayyida: and if you are speaking, as a rep and a figure you have to realize that you are somoene to look up to [8:27pm] Sayyida: as someone your age and knowlage you should understand that [8:27pm] Sayyida: take your emotions aside and just look. [8:28pm] Bluestreak: This is not an emotional response. [8:28pm] Bluestreak: This a rational response, [8:28pm] Bluestreak: You are succomnbing to pressure about my feminist views [8:28pm] Bluestreak: This is akin to when women were told to not get involved in sufferage. [8:30pm] Sayyida: As someone who has made the mistake over and over and OVER [8:30pm] Sayyida: calling names and being emotional over a subject that does not require emotion is senseless [8:30pm] Sayyida: the whole discussion has been this [8:30pm] Sayyida: We have x complaint [8:31pm] Sayyida: we need to you realize you have a face in this party [8:31pm] Sayyida: we need to have an agreement that you will dial back the divisive posts [8:31pm] Sayyida: shake hands and be done [8:31pm] Bluestreak: Right, but you are asking to cencor myself over something that is not morally wrong. [8:31pm] Sayyida: yes this ENTIRE thing has been name calling, sexist calling, and all sorts of other wastes of air and bits [8:32pm] Bluestreak: Reread what I said. [8:32pm] Sayyida: again. [8:32pm] Bluestreak: I did not nam call. [8:32pm] Sayyida: you are bringing emotion [8:32pm] Sayyida: you didn't? [8:32pm] Bluestreak: You 3 ganged up on me [8:33pm] Bluestreak: Oh don’t start the “you’re being hysterical” thing or I WILL call you sexist. [8:33pm] kusanagi: No one ganged up on you. [8:33pm] Sayyida: you are being overly emotional [8:33pm] Sayyida: name calling [8:33pm] Sayyida: As was the RCV ref in Maine, and the legis there is currently working to repeal. [8:33pm] Sayyida: Don’t patronize me. [8:33pm] Sayyida: I know how the system works. [8:33pm] Sayyida: Masplainer. [8:33pm] Sayyida: Mansplainer [8:33pm] Sayyida: does that at all see anything? [8:33pm] Bluestreak: That was at Andrea who is being a total prig [8:34pm] Bluestreak: He is trolling this whole thing [8:34pm] Sayyida: you are emotionally explosive [8:34pm] Bluestreak: I agreed to a BOARD meeting [8:34pm] Bluestreak: I didn’t agree to Andrew’s trolling presence. [8:34pm] Bluestreak: You are gaslighting, Sayyida [8:34pm] Sayyida: this was not a meeting to attack [8:35pm] Sayyida: this was a meeting to discuss the CoC and to discuss the complaints [8:35pm] Sayyida: you have already blown up [8:35pm] Sayyida: the emotional fighting is nothing to do with the issue [8:35pm] Sayyida: that line [8:35pm] Sayyida: this was a meeting to discuss the CoC and to discuss the complaints [8:36pm] Sayyida: we asked you to tone down your posts [8:36pm] Sayyida: you responeded with cry s of censorship sexist tryiant, the like to respond [8:36pm] Bluestreak: And I said “I will change nothing" [8:37pm] Sayyida: this was an I/0 [8:37pm] Bluestreak: Why is Andrew here? [8:37pm] Bluestreak: Why is he allowed to speak? [8:37pm] Sayyida: because believe it or not this is an open channel [8:37pm] Bluestreak: He insulted me WAY back, and you had nothing to say about it. [8:37pm] Sayyida: he did and im not chair [8:37pm] Bluestreak: Now, after he has abused all through the meeting you take excpetion to me calling him out for it? [8:37pm] kusanagi: Because the meeting was only scheduled between the three of us, he just popped in [8:37pm] Bluestreak: Biased much? [8:38pm] kusanagi: that's why he was in. he saw activity on the channel. [8:38pm] Bluestreak: OR [8:38pm] Sayyida: my keeping to the ship I don't need to tag him in [8:38pm] Bluestreak: Liz had it on an open channel and TOLD Andrew to come [8:38pm] Sayyida: oh my god. [8:38pm] Bluestreak: To intimidate me into agreeing to censor myself. [8:38pm] kusanagi: Are you seriously suggesting that [8:39pm] Sayyida: and maybe president johnson is a time traveler [8:39pm] Bluestreak: We are ar 3 hours and 40 minute. [8:39pm] Bluestreak: We have accomplished nothing [8:39pm] Sayyida: yes and you refuse to tone it down [8:39pm] Bluestreak: Think of the blogs that could have been written [8:39pm] Bluestreak: The tweets [8:39pm] kusanagi: There have been tweets. [8:39pm] Bluestreak: The organization [8:39pm] Sayyida: its not like we can't multitask [8:39pm] Bluestreak: ARe you? [8:40pm] kusanagi: yes. [8:40pm] Sayyida: ha, right now im doing a paper for someone on conspiecy theroies [8:40pm] Bluestreak: Now, after he has abused all through the meeting you take excpetion to me calling him out for it? [8:40pm] Sayyida: im also editing a recording [8:40pm] Bluestreak: You never answered that. [8:40pm] Sayyida: talking on this [8:40pm] Sayyida: and making my ramen #2 bowl [8:41pm] Sayyida: he was not in this original issue [8:41pm] Sayyida: i do not have the duty to pull him in [8:41pm] Sayyida: he was here [8:41pm] Sayyida: i had no prior knowlage [8:41pm] Bluestreak: I move that we move to anothe channel if we are going to continure the meeting [8:41pm] kusanagi: he popped in because there was activity, knowing him and knowing how IRC is. [8:41pm] Bluestreak: : [8:41pm] Bluestreak: I move that we move to anothe channel if we are going to continure the meeting [8:42pm] kusanagi: he also didn't come in immediately, either. he was away for the first hour. [8:42pm] Bluestreak: : [8:42pm] Bluestreak: I move that we move to anothe channel if we are going to continure the meeting [8:42pm] kusanagi: i only have this channel registered for USPP. [8:43pm] Sayyida: i need to close the client due to lagging [8:43pm] Bluestreak: Since we cannot hold the meeting of the board withoug his continued interferrence, I move to adjourn [8:43pm] Sayyida: i have too much at once [8:43pm] kusanagi: I've asked him to stop. [8:43pm] Sayyida: ill log back in a moment [8:43pm] Sayyida left the chat room. (Quit: Ex-Chat) [8:43pm] Bluestreak: Repeatedly but he didn't [8:43pm] kusanagi: he will. otherwise I'll ban temporarily. [8:43pm] Bluestreak: I have no confidence that he will refrain in future [8:43pm] Sayyida joined the chat room. [8:44pm] Bluestreak: You can ban him now thank you. [8:44pm] Sayyida: ban him? [8:44pm] Bluestreak: Or move to another channel [8:44pm] Sayyida: wait how much did i miss??? [8:46pm] kusanagi: kusanagi> he will. otherwise I'll ban temporarily. [8:46pm] kusanagi: Repeatedly but he didn't [8:46pm] kusanagi: in re asking norton to stop [8:46pm] Sayyida: got it [8:47pm] Bluestreak: We are approaching 4 hours. [8:47pm] Sayyida: and you are still stomping your feet like a child [8:48pm] Bluestreak: No, you are TREATING me like a child. [8:48pm] Sayyida: I don't have the years expierance to sit though tantrums but this is a rough learning curve [8:48pm] Bluestreak: Tantrum? We have been here 4 hours! [8:48pm] Sayyida: adults come to compromises or even agree on things with rules [8:49pm] Bluestreak: I did comprimise. [8:49pm] Sayyida: children yell and say they wont listen or follow any [8:49pm] Bluestreak: I said I would add the disclaimer [8:49pm] Bluestreak: I am not yelling. [8:50pm] Bluestreak: You are acting like a fascist. [8:50pm] Sayyida: that is another word I forgot [8:50pm] Bluestreak: Oh but YOU can call ME a child? [8:50pm] Sayyida: everything has rules [8:50pm] Sayyida: everything has boundries [8:50pm] Bluestreak: So this “no name calling” imperitive applies onlyy to me? [8:51pm] Sayyida: most are meant for the good of a situation or group [8:51pm] Bluestreak: If I were a political comprimiser I would still be a DEMOCRAT [8:51pm] Sayyida: many are based on civilized common behaviour [8:51pm] Bluestreak: Fascist. [8:51pm] Sayyida: when common behaviour can not be established it is presented in rules [8:51pm] Bluestreak: There is not rule against what I do! [8:52pm] Bluestreak: none [8:52pm] Bluestreak: I violated nothing! [8:52pm] Bluestreak: I didn’t even violate the new proposed code! [8:52pm] Bluestreak: Or even challenge it! [8:52pm] kusanagi: the "trans sheep are sheep" meme does, actually. [8:53pm] Sayyida: ^ i was gonna throw that in [8:53pm] Bluestreak: The danger of the wolf in sheeps clothing is the danger of censorship [8:53pm] Bluestreak: Of the qwelling of political discourse. [8:53pm] Bluestreak: Not of trans people. [8:53pm] Sayyida: and that was the meme? and had nothing to do wth the trans community? [8:53pm] Sayyida: right [8:53pm] Sayyida: right [8:53pm] Bluestreak: Some of my favorite ppl are trans [8:54pm] kusanagi: It doesn't come off that way at all. [8:54pm] Sayyida: yes and my ex uses the excuse that she dated a black guy so she can throw around the N word [8:54pm] Bluestreak: You want me add that caveat? [8:54pm] Bluestreak: Does not follow. [8:54pm] Bluestreak: I don’t use slurs [8:54pm] Sayyida: the statement still stand [8:54pm] Bluestreak: Which one? [8:55pm] Sayyida: because you have ____ or have been with ________ doesn't mean your *non community self* can speak on their issues and not risk outside backlash [8:55pm] kusanagi: You don't need to use slurs though. That's another thing. [8:56pm] Sayyida: you have presented the arugment that if anyone speaks against femminsim is sexist or complaciant with the norm [8:56pm] Bluestreak: “because you have ____ or have been with ________ doesn't mean your *non community self* can speak on their issues and not risk outside backlash” not claiming that [8:56pm] Bluestreak: Just telling that what I am saying contitutes feminsm not anti-transism [8:56pm] Sayyida: then you can not state that "i have trans freinds" so you can say this [8:56pm] Sayyida: you are missing the point [8:56pm] Bluestreak: My kid is trans. [8:57pm] Bluestreak: Not just “my friends" [8:57pm] Bluestreak: No youre missing the point [8:57pm] Bluestreak: The point of the [8:57pm] Bluestreak: PP [8:57pm] Bluestreak: I left the Greens over PC culture [8:58pm] Bluestreak: If y’all are going to act the same way, Ima head back there, where things are happening. [8:58pm] Bluestreak: At least. [8:58pm] Sayyida: I've had this discussion with my HARDCORE pro trump father [8:58pm] Sayyida: and he gets it [8:58pm] Sayyida: PC culture vs respect are two sepreate things [8:59pm] Sayyida: there is discressioni [8:59pm] Sayyida: and then there is censroship [8:59pm] Sayyida: if his 58 year old white male brain can get those things [8:59pm] Sayyida: im sure you can too [9:05pm] Bluestreak: I AM being respectful. I am just disagreeing [9:05pm] Bluestreak: That’s allowed [9:06pm] Bluestreak: 4 hours. [9:06pm] kusanagi: In the event that another complaint is made about such a post in the future, as per the CoC it will come up before the PNC. As I've been receiving complaints previously about the dialogue on the posts, it was necessary to address. [9:07pm] Bluestreak: I did tone down on the USPP [9:07pm] Bluestreak: Without argument. [9:07pm] Sayyida: and even my father knows when you need to work together. [9:08pm] kusanagi: The personal page does reflect on us, and that is something the code of conduct covers. [9:08pm] Bluestreak: Citation? [9:08pm] kusanagi: The code itself [9:09pm] kusanagi: Should be a copy of the proposed code in an emai [9:09pm] kusanagi: email* [9:09pm] Sayyida: it is [9:11pm] Bluestreak: PROPOSED code. [9:11pm] Bluestreak: Hasn’t been voted in. [9:11pm] Bluestreak: Ain’t gunna support it now. [9:11pm] Bluestreak: And before this meeting I was. [9:12pm] Bluestreak: Wow. [9:12pm] kusanagi: That will be discussed with the full PNC on the 6th [9:13pm] Sayyida: you are upset with the code becuase it can affect you [9:13pm] Sayyida: then its worth voting in [9:14pm] Bluestreak: It’s censorship. [9:14pm] Bluestreak: On purely political grounds. [9:14pm] Bluestreak: Not Pirate. [9:15pm] Bluestreak: Stop referring to me as “upset” and “emotional” or I WILL refer to you as a bully. [9:16pm] Sayyida: you are being irrational [9:16pm] Sayyida: and you are being emotional [9:16pm] Sayyida: and you are upste [9:16pm] Sayyida: upset* [9:16pm] Sayyida: this is a good code to support because it holds EVERYONE accountable [9:17pm] Sayyida: This is not a bully situation [9:17pm] Sayyida: this is not name calling [9:18pm] Sayyida: this can be literally seen on a psych level as highly emotional and sensitive [9:18pm] Sayyida: that's a no brainer [9:18pm] Sayyida: like I have said at least twice now there is discression and then there is censorship [9:19pm] Sayyida: there is a time and a place for all thingis [9:19pm] Sayyida: things* [9:19pm] Sayyida: a time and a place for all things [9:19pm] Sayyida: a time and a place for all things [9:19pm] Sayyida: a time and a place for all things [9:19pm] Sayyida: a time and a place for all things [9:19pm] Sayyida: a time and a place for all things [9:19pm] Sayyida: but [9:19pm] Sayyida: when critera is met against some of those things the place is not [9:19pm] Sayyida: that is what i am talking about [9:20pm] Sayyida: not censorship [9:22pm] Bluestreak: 4 hours 22 minutes. K`Tetch_ joined the chat room. [9:22pm] Sayyida: I know and i'm still sitting [9:22pm] Sayyida: Coco is still cuddling [9:26pm] K`Tetch left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [9:26pm] K`Tetch__ joined the chat room. [9:26pm] Sayyida: I will motion to end [9:27pm] Sayyida: anyone second? [9:27pm] Bluestreak: 2nd [9:27pm] K`Tetch_ left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [9:27pm] Sayyida: kusanagi, then I guess we are done [9:27pm] Bluestreak: Chair call a vote? [9:27pm] kusanagi: yep [9:28pm] kusanagi: no need for it? [9:28pm] kusanagi: This was informal.. [9:28pm] kusanagi: >..> [9:28pm] Sayyida: no joke >..> no joke none made? yea I'm whoozy from meds. sorry. I hear you. Tah everyone later