October 12th, 2015 IRC Meeting: Difference between revisions

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* srevilak (Steve Revilak, Arlington, MA)
* srevilak (Steve Revilak, Arlington, MA)
* Bluestreak
* Bluestreak (Lucia Fiero)
* bestpiggy
* bestpiggy (olivia píñeyro, Boston, Ma)
* Kendra


=== Observers ===
=== Observers ===
Line 73: Line 74:


== Summary ==
== Summary ==
Discusson of whether to Withdraw support for H.3127 the [http://www.wethepeoplemass.org/ We the People Act].  We vote to withdraw support (4-0, no abstentions).
Doctorow events.  Lucia and Jason attending the evening event.  Kendra planning to attend both.


== Minutes ==
== Minutes ==


   <nowiki>
   <nowiki>
 
20:57 < srevilak> hi all
20:58 < srevilak>
        https://masspirates.org/wiki/October_12th,_2015_IRC_Meeting, when the
        time comes
21:02 < srevilak> ids
21:02 < srevilak> Steve Revilak, Arlington, MA
21:02 < srevilak> (jokeefe is not feeling well, and asked me to cover
        for him)
21:02 < Bluestreak> Lucia Fiero
21:02 < bestpiggy> olivia píñeyro, Boston, Ma
21:03 < bestpiggy> oh thats too bad
21:03 < srevilak> I'm hoping he can rest and feel better
21:04 < Kendra> Hi All
21:04 < srevilak> shall we wait a few minutes, to see if anyone else
        joins?
21:04 < srevilak> Hi Kendra
21:05 < Bluestreak> Just his luck he will miss Cory D!
21:05 < Kendra> Is jamie sick?
21:05 < Bluestreak> He shoulda skipped Honk!
21:05 < srevilak> Kendra: yes, he's not feeling well.  Taking a hiatus
        to rest this evening
21:05 < Bluestreak> Silly man
21:06 < Bluestreak> I think it’ safe tos start!
21:06 < srevilak> Agenda is
        https://masspirates.org/wiki/October_12th,_2015_IRC_Meeting
21:07 < srevilak> First order is discussing whether we want to withdraw
        support for H.3127 (We the people act, sponsored by Move to Amend)
21:08 < srevilak> We decided to sponsor this back in the Spring
21:08 < srevilak> Recently, a few people from Pass Mass Amendment asked us
        "why the heck do you want to support an Article V convention"
21:08 < Kendra> You may want to recap, but I read your objections and
        the response and I agree to withdraw support on that basis.
21:09 < srevilak> The concerns: article V conventions are open ended.
        What comes out of a convention is not necessarily related to the
        motivation for calling it
21:09 < srevilak> For example, the convention could turn around a propose
        that corporations ARE people, and money is speech
21:10 < srevilak> Or that warrants are not needed for issues involving
        matters of national security
21:10 < srevilak> or whatever
21:11 < srevilak> It boils down to what gets proposed, and what states
        choose to ratify
21:11 < Bluestreak> Since I have not been well enough to give matters
        such thought, I will defer.
21:11 < srevilak> (Congress gets some say in how ratification process
        is conducted)
21:11 < srevilak> Bluestreak: ok
21:11 < Bluestreak> I wasn’t too concerned, but if you are Steve
21:11 < Kendra> are there some more famous examples where this convention
        was used for the opposite effect then originally intended?
21:11 < Bluestreak> Good question
21:12 < srevilak> Article V has never been used to propose amendments
21:12 < srevilak> In that sense, it's uncharted territory
21:12 < Kendra> So it's a loophole
21:12 < srevilak> Kendra: yup
21:13 < srevilak> bestpiggy: any thoughts?
21:13 < Kendra> It seems like with a creative lawyer and a loophole any
        law or legal process can be circumvented
21:14 < srevilak> Kendra: it would be ironic if (say) there were
        challenges regarding the convention's scope, and we needed a court case
        to settle it
21:14 < srevilak> which would be a big mess
21:15 < Kendra> Lawyers and court fees add up though
21:15 < bestpiggy> they add up quickly
21:15 < Kendra> It's another racket
21:16 < srevilak> are folks okay with putting it to a vote, or more
        discussion required
21:16 < srevilak> ?
21:16 < Kendra> I agree with not supporitng it
21:17 < srevilak> All in favor of withdrawing support?
21:17 < Kendra> aye
21:18 < bestpiggy> aye
21:18 < srevilak> Bluestreak: you're abstaining, correct?
21:18 < Bluestreak> no I will support
21:18 < Bluestreak> aye
21:18 < srevilak> aye
21:19 < srevilak> okay, Ayes, have it.  I think that was consistent with
        the discussion we had on the mailing list as well
21:20 < srevilak> Moving on to Upcoming events
21:20 < srevilak> Doctorow events tomorrow.  One at noon, one tomorrow
        evening
21:20 < Bluestreak> Jason and I will be at the one in the evening.
21:20 < srevilak> Who's going, and any last-minute preparations to
        be made?
21:20 < Kendra> I am planning to attend those.
21:20 < Bluestreak> Where are you?
21:21 < Bluestreak> I thought you were in Detroit?
21:21 < srevilak> Sadly, I won't be able to make either :(
21:21 < Kendra> I am here for a few days to get some things and attend
        these two things.  I have some things I am wrapping up.
21:21 < Bluestreak> bestpiggy will you be able to come?
21:22 < Bluestreak> I hope?
21:22 < Bluestreak> I’m glad to hear you can get to the luncheon, Kendra
21:23 < Bluestreak> We have no one else going to that!
21:23 < bestpiggy> im not sure i can make it, i have weird class times
        this semester.
21:23 < Kendra> I will represent the MPP well for you all tomorrow,
        I promise
21:24 < srevilak> thank you, Kendra!
21:24 < Bluestreak> As wonderful a job as I am sure you will do, more
        than one Pirate would be nice!
21:25 < bestpiggy> no presure haha
21:25 < Bluestreak> lol
21:25 < Bluestreak> Do try to get one or the other Olivia
21:25 < Bluestreak> It would be so nice to see you!
21:26 < srevilak> I am rather fond of the luncheon's title, "Kill all
        DRM in the world forever, within a decade"
21:26 < bestpiggy> do you about how long it will run, i have class
        from 3-8pm
21:27 < srevilak> bestpiggy: I believe it ends at 8pm
21:27 < Bluestreak> Luncheon?
21:27 < Bluestreak> No pressure
21:27 < Bluestreak> :-)
21:28 < srevilak> Anything else on Doctorow events?
21:31 < Bluestreak> Im good
21:32 < srevilak> Moving on to Task status
21:32 < srevilak> PirateCon 2015 videos?
21:33 < Bluestreak> Maybe I will get to editing one when I am off chemo...
21:33 < srevilak> Bluestreak: no worries -- whenever you feel up to it
21:33 < Bluestreak> ty
21:34  * srevilak still has a few more audio segments to edit.
        Perhaps this weekend
21:34 < srevilak> On the MAAPL side: Peter, one of the other people
        working on the project
21:35 < srevilak> has done a little UI work, and has been busy putting
        up content.
21:35 < srevilak> Looks better http://my.maapl.info/
21:35 < srevilak> This week, we did our first digital intake form
21:35 < Kendra> Thanks for staying on top of that.
21:35 < srevilak> But still much more to do.  Ongoing project
21:36 < Kendra> Let me know if I can help at all.  I have to leave a
        little early, I will see you all in a bit.
21:36 < Kendra> Nite
21:36 < srevilak> nite, kendra
21:36 < srevilak> I'm not sure we have anyone here to discuss the
        newsletter
21:37 < srevilak> Moving on to Media: after Tuesday, perhaps time to
        start looking for candidates to run in 2016
21:37 < srevilak> ask early, ask often :)
21:39 < srevilak> Blog posts: I'll do one re: We the people act
21:39 < srevilak> speaking of which, what have y'all heard about the
        leaked TPP chapter on intellectual property?
21:40 < Bluestreak> is it posted?
21:40 < srevilak> yes!
21:41 < srevilak> https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/
21:41 < srevilak> `````````
21:42 < srevilak> (^^^ says cat)
21:42 < srevilak> I've read some of the analyses, but not the chapter
        itself.  Seems like the "benefit to large pharmaceutical companies"
        chapter
21:43 < Bluestreak> My observation
21:43 < Bluestreak> Companies want to sue to prevent governments from
        interfering with their businesses right?
21:44 < Bluestreak> But aren’t courts the government?
21:44 < srevilak> Bluestreak: those are the investor state dispute
        settlements
21:44 < srevilak> Cases would be heard by a legal tribunal, not by courts
21:44 < Bluestreak> better example of wht aI am talking about would be
21:45 < Bluestreak> cable companies suing towns trying to create muni nets
21:46 < srevilak> In ISDS world, I believe the cable companies would
        assemble their tribunals, and towns would go before the tribunals
21:46 < Bluestreak> And what is a legal tribunal than a contruct of
        government
21:46 < Bluestreak> What free market
21:46 < srevilak> It's actually a construct of the treaty
21:47 < Bluestreak> who constructed the treaty?
21:47 < Bluestreak> governments
21:47 < Bluestreak> You are missing my point
21:47 < Bluestreak> their moral imperitive argument
21:48 < Bluestreak> of the sanctity of a free market
21:48 < srevilak> Bluestreak: sorry, I'm not following
21:48 < Bluestreak> if they use the courts to enforce monopoly they are
        defying the free market
21:48 < Bluestreak> I guess I am speaking specifically to the libertarian
        supporters of the corportate tactics
21:49 < srevilak> I think their version of free market is "we get to do
        whatever the fuck we want to"
21:49 < Bluestreak> Well all we have is words to fight them with
21:49 < Bluestreak> so we have to point out hoew they contradict
        themselves
21:50 < srevilak> Bluestreak: libertarians are supporting TPP?
21:50 < Bluestreak> less informed ones are: Anything labelled “free
        trade"
21:50 < srevilak> I prefer the term anarcho-capitalism
21:52 < Bluestreak> I’m sure you do!
21:52 < srevilak> free is all relative
21:52 < Bluestreak> Platonic debate is all I have. I have no money
21:52 < Bluestreak> I have little energy.
21:53 < srevilak> On the encouraging side, a few days ago 250K people
        gathered in Berlin, to demostrate against TTIP
21:53 < Bluestreak> No coverage in the US!
21:53 < Bluestreak> saw it on FB though
21:54 < srevilak> we're nearly at time.  Any other pressing issues for
        the evening?
21:56 < srevilak> motion to adjourn?
21:56 < Bluestreak> 2nd
21:57 < bestpiggy> I think we can wrap it up for the night
21:57 < srevilak> very well.  Thanks for joining in!
</nowiki>
</nowiki>

Latest revision as of 22:56, 1 February 2018

Decisions

Upcoming Events

Task Status

  • PirateCon 2015 Videos
    • Evan Greer talk (Bluestreak)
  • MAAPL form (srevilak)
  • Newsletter (Kendra, paper_waves, ?)
    • Design & Feedback
    • Distribution Planning (besides emailing a pdf)
      • Gather list of people to mail it to (?)
      • Gather a list of places to distribute it (?)
      • Decide on the print run (?)
    • Distribute
  • Media
    • Updated media list (noe)
    • Nov. - 2016 Elections
    • Dec. - ?
  • Blog posts
    • Local/regional contacts (jokeefe) - Regional page up. Working on local pages.
    • TPP update (jokeefe)
    • CISA update (jokeefe)
  • Tech - see for priorities
    • Bitcoin + Credit card gateway in CiviCRM (srevilak, js0000, Kendra)
    • Improve UI navigation of wiki & expose more wiki bits on blog (Noe, jokeefe)
    • Allow distributed organizing on CiviCRM (and pointers to get started) (Kendra, srevilak, Chris, jokeefe)
    • js0000 and jokeefe will work on building a tool to manage twitter:
    • Forum (or needed now that lists are publicized?)
  • Materials
  • Policies update (jokeefe)
    • Check on the state of them
    • Write up doc on using git & commenting on & voting on changes.

Tasks: Wiki list, PiratePad version.


Upcoming Events

  1. 10/13, Kill all DRM in the world forever, within a decade, conversation with Cory Doctorow, Berkman Center at Harvard University, Harvard Law School campus, Wasserstein Hall, Milstein West A
  2. 10/13, 6:30-8pm, The Remote-Controlled Society, Roundtable with Cory Doctorow and others, C. Walsh Theater, Suffolk University, Boston
  3. 10/28, 6-9pm, Cryptoparty, Parts & Crafts?, 577 Somerville Ave, Somerville
  4. Nov. event?
  5. 11/25, 6-9pm, Cryptoparty, Somerville
  6. Dec. event?
  7. 12/30, 6-9pm, Cryptoparty, Somerville ?

Every Thu., Digital Fourth meeting, 11:20am-1:30pm, Voltage Cafe, Third Street, Cambridge

Participants

  • srevilak (Steve Revilak, Arlington, MA)
  • Bluestreak (Lucia Fiero)
  • bestpiggy (olivia píñeyro, Boston, Ma)
  • Kendra

Observers

  • davidd
  • Pharyngeal

Summary

Discusson of whether to Withdraw support for H.3127 the We the People Act. We vote to withdraw support (4-0, no abstentions).

Doctorow events. Lucia and Jason attending the evening event. Kendra planning to attend both.

Minutes

 
20:57 < srevilak> hi all
20:58 < srevilak>
        https://masspirates.org/wiki/October_12th,_2015_IRC_Meeting, when the
        time comes
21:02 < srevilak> ids
21:02 < srevilak> Steve Revilak, Arlington, MA
21:02 < srevilak> (jokeefe is not feeling well, and asked me to cover
        for him)
21:02 < Bluestreak> Lucia Fiero
21:02 < bestpiggy> olivia píñeyro, Boston, Ma
21:03 < bestpiggy> oh thats too bad
21:03 < srevilak> I'm hoping he can rest and feel better
21:04 < Kendra> Hi All
21:04 < srevilak> shall we wait a few minutes, to see if anyone else
        joins?
21:04 < srevilak> Hi Kendra
21:05 < Bluestreak> Just his luck he will miss Cory D!
21:05 < Kendra> Is jamie sick?
21:05 < Bluestreak> He shoulda skipped Honk!
21:05 < srevilak> Kendra: yes, he's not feeling well.  Taking a hiatus
        to rest this evening
21:05 < Bluestreak> Silly man
21:06 < Bluestreak> I think it’ safe tos start!
21:06 < srevilak> Agenda is
        https://masspirates.org/wiki/October_12th,_2015_IRC_Meeting
21:07 < srevilak> First order is discussing whether we want to withdraw
        support for H.3127 (We the people act, sponsored by Move to Amend)
21:08 < srevilak> We decided to sponsor this back in the Spring
21:08 < srevilak> Recently, a few people from Pass Mass Amendment asked us
        "why the heck do you want to support an Article V convention"
21:08 < Kendra> You may want to recap, but I read your objections and
        the response and I agree to withdraw support on that basis.
21:09 < srevilak> The concerns: article V conventions are open ended.
        What comes out of a convention is not necessarily related to the
        motivation for calling it
21:09 < srevilak> For example, the convention could turn around a propose
        that corporations ARE people, and money is speech
21:10 < srevilak> Or that warrants are not needed for issues involving
        matters of national security
21:10 < srevilak> or whatever
21:11 < srevilak> It boils down to what gets proposed, and what states
        choose to ratify
21:11 < Bluestreak> Since I have not been well enough to give matters
        such thought, I will defer.
21:11 < srevilak> (Congress gets some say in how ratification process
        is conducted)
21:11 < srevilak> Bluestreak: ok
21:11 < Bluestreak> I wasn’t too concerned, but if you are Steve
21:11 < Kendra> are there some more famous examples where this convention
        was used for the opposite effect then originally intended?
21:11 < Bluestreak> Good question
21:12 < srevilak> Article V has never been used to propose amendments
21:12 < srevilak> In that sense, it's uncharted territory
21:12 < Kendra> So it's a loophole
21:12 < srevilak> Kendra: yup
21:13 < srevilak> bestpiggy: any thoughts?
21:13 < Kendra> It seems like with a creative lawyer and a loophole any
        law or legal process can be circumvented
21:14 < srevilak> Kendra: it would be ironic if (say) there were
        challenges regarding the convention's scope, and we needed a court case
        to settle it
21:14 < srevilak> which would be a big mess
21:15 < Kendra> Lawyers and court fees add up though
21:15 < bestpiggy> they add up quickly
21:15 < Kendra> It's another racket
21:16 < srevilak> are folks okay with putting it to a vote, or more
        discussion required
21:16 < srevilak> ?
21:16 < Kendra> I agree with not supporitng it
21:17 < srevilak> All in favor of withdrawing support?
21:17 < Kendra> aye
21:18 < bestpiggy> aye
21:18 < srevilak> Bluestreak: you're abstaining, correct?
21:18 < Bluestreak> no I will support
21:18 < Bluestreak> aye
21:18 < srevilak> aye
21:19 < srevilak> okay, Ayes, have it.  I think that was consistent with
        the discussion we had on the mailing list as well
21:20 < srevilak> Moving on to Upcoming events
21:20 < srevilak> Doctorow events tomorrow.  One at noon, one tomorrow
        evening
21:20 < Bluestreak> Jason and I will be at the one in the evening.
21:20 < srevilak> Who's going, and any last-minute preparations to
        be made?
21:20 < Kendra> I am planning to attend those.
21:20 < Bluestreak> Where are you?
21:21 < Bluestreak> I thought you were in Detroit?
21:21 < srevilak> Sadly, I won't be able to make either :(
21:21 < Kendra> I am here for a few days to get some things and attend
        these two things.  I have some things I am wrapping up.
21:21 < Bluestreak> bestpiggy will you be able to come?
21:22 < Bluestreak> I hope?
21:22 < Bluestreak> I’m glad to hear you can get to the luncheon, Kendra
21:23 < Bluestreak> We have no one else going to that!
21:23 < bestpiggy> im not sure i can make it, i have weird class times
        this semester.
21:23 < Kendra> I will represent the MPP well for you all tomorrow,
        I promise
21:24 < srevilak> thank you, Kendra!
21:24 < Bluestreak> As wonderful a job as I am sure you will do, more
        than one Pirate would be nice!
21:25 < bestpiggy> no presure haha
21:25 < Bluestreak> lol
21:25 < Bluestreak> Do try to get one or the other Olivia
21:25 < Bluestreak> It would be so nice to see you!
21:26 < srevilak> I am rather fond of the luncheon's title, "Kill all
        DRM in the world forever, within a decade"
21:26 < bestpiggy> do you about how long it will run, i have class
        from 3-8pm
21:27 < srevilak> bestpiggy: I believe it ends at 8pm
21:27 < Bluestreak> Luncheon?
21:27 < Bluestreak> No pressure
21:27 < Bluestreak> :-)
21:28 < srevilak> Anything else on Doctorow events?
21:31 < Bluestreak> Im good
21:32 < srevilak> Moving on to Task status
21:32 < srevilak> PirateCon 2015 videos?
21:33 < Bluestreak> Maybe I will get to editing one when I am off chemo...
21:33 < srevilak> Bluestreak: no worries -- whenever you feel up to it
21:33 < Bluestreak> ty
21:34  * srevilak still has a few more audio segments to edit.
        Perhaps this weekend
21:34 < srevilak> On the MAAPL side: Peter, one of the other people
        working on the project
21:35 < srevilak> has done a little UI work, and has been busy putting
        up content.
21:35 < srevilak> Looks better http://my.maapl.info/
21:35 < srevilak> This week, we did our first digital intake form
21:35 < Kendra> Thanks for staying on top of that.
21:35 < srevilak> But still much more to do.  Ongoing project
21:36 < Kendra> Let me know if I can help at all.  I have to leave a
        little early, I will see you all in a bit.
21:36 < Kendra> Nite
21:36 < srevilak> nite, kendra
21:36 < srevilak> I'm not sure we have anyone here to discuss the
        newsletter
21:37 < srevilak> Moving on to Media: after Tuesday, perhaps time to
        start looking for candidates to run in 2016
21:37 < srevilak> ask early, ask often :)
21:39 < srevilak> Blog posts: I'll do one re: We the people act
21:39 < srevilak> speaking of which, what have y'all heard about the
        leaked TPP chapter on intellectual property?
21:40 < Bluestreak> is it posted?
21:40 < srevilak> yes!
21:41 < srevilak> https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/
21:41 < srevilak> `````````
21:42 < srevilak> (^^^ says cat)
21:42 < srevilak> I've read some of the analyses, but not the chapter
        itself.  Seems like the "benefit to large pharmaceutical companies"
        chapter
21:43 < Bluestreak> My observation
21:43 < Bluestreak> Companies want to sue to prevent governments from
        interfering with their businesses right?
21:44 < Bluestreak> But aren’t courts the government?
21:44 < srevilak> Bluestreak: those are the investor state dispute
        settlements
21:44 < srevilak> Cases would be heard by a legal tribunal, not by courts
21:44 < Bluestreak> better example of wht aI am talking about would be
21:45 < Bluestreak> cable companies suing towns trying to create muni nets
21:46 < srevilak> In ISDS world, I believe the cable companies would
        assemble their tribunals, and towns would go before the tribunals
21:46 < Bluestreak> And what is a legal tribunal than a contruct of
        government
21:46 < Bluestreak> What free market
21:46 < srevilak> It's actually a construct of the treaty
21:47 < Bluestreak> who constructed the treaty?
21:47 < Bluestreak> governments
21:47 < Bluestreak> You are missing my point
21:47 < Bluestreak> their moral imperitive argument
21:48 < Bluestreak> of the sanctity of a free market
21:48 < srevilak> Bluestreak: sorry, I'm not following
21:48 < Bluestreak> if they use the courts to enforce monopoly they are
        defying the free market
21:48 < Bluestreak> I guess I am speaking specifically to the libertarian
        supporters of the corportate tactics
21:49 < srevilak> I think their version of free market is "we get to do
        whatever the fuck we want to"
21:49 < Bluestreak> Well all we have is words to fight them with
21:49 < Bluestreak> so we have to point out hoew they contradict
        themselves
21:50 < srevilak> Bluestreak: libertarians are supporting TPP?
21:50 < Bluestreak> less informed ones are: Anything labelled “free
        trade"
21:50 < srevilak> I prefer the term anarcho-capitalism
21:52 < Bluestreak> I’m sure you do!
21:52 < srevilak> free is all relative
21:52 < Bluestreak> Platonic debate is all I have. I have no money
21:52 < Bluestreak> I have little energy.
21:53 < srevilak> On the encouraging side, a few days ago 250K people
        gathered in Berlin, to demostrate against TTIP
21:53 < Bluestreak> No coverage in the US!
21:53 < Bluestreak> saw it on FB though
21:54 < srevilak> we're nearly at time.  Any other pressing issues for
        the evening?
21:56 < srevilak> motion to adjourn?
21:56 < Bluestreak> 2nd
21:57 < bestpiggy> I think we can wrap it up for the night
21:57 < srevilak> very well.  Thanks for joining in!
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