November 1st, 2012 IRC Meeting

Agenda

1. Decisions on ballot questions

• QUESTION 1: Availability of Motor Vehicle Repair Information
• QUESTION 2: Prescribing Medication to End Life
• QUESTION 3: Medical Use of Marijuana

2. National party update

Quick Notes / Summaries Re Proposed Bills to be Discussed:

1. Decisions on ballot questions

• QUESTION 1: Availability of Motor Vehicle Repair Information
• QUESTION 2: Prescribing Medication to End Life
• QUESTION 3: Medical Use of Marijuana

2. Ballot Questions, Platform, LQFB

Attending

Place holders

• jokeefe - James O'Keefe, Somerville
• mildbeard - Erik Zoltan, Framingham

Observers:

• passstab
• [bsod]
• cmal
• teamcoltra

Summary

2. Ballot Questions, Platform, LQFB

1. Decisions on ballot questions

• QUESTION 1: Availability of Motor Vehicle Repair Information
• QUESTION 2: Prescribing Medication to End Life
• QUESTION 3: Medical Use of Marijuana

2. National party update

Meeting Minutes

<nowiki>

[12:02] <@jokeefe> so agenda - http://masspirates.org/wiki/index.php?title=November_1st,_2012_IRC_Meeting [12:02] <+davidd> jep that is correct [12:02] <@jokeefe> the ballot question edition [12:02] == [bsod] changed the topic of #masspirates to: welcome to the home of the massachusetts pirate party http://www.masspirates.org/blog/ [12:03] <@jokeefe> QUESTION 1: Availability of Motor Vehicle Repair Information [12:03] <@jokeefe> info at http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/ele12/ballot_questions_12/quest_1.htm [12:03] <@[bsod]> lost the topic, i guess everyone left at some point [12:03] <@[bsod]> cept 4q who has been prone to time outs since my evil neighbor stole my wireless channel [12:03] == js0000 [webchat@hlbyvr-ykd.feldberg.brandeis.edu] has joined #masspirates [12:03] == mode/#masspirates [+v js0000] by [4Q] [12:03] == mode/#masspirates [+l 15] by [4Q] [12:03] <@jokeefe> hey js0000 [12:03] <@[bsod]> i have reviewed and will vote yes on all three [12:03] <@jokeefe> but first forgot to have folks do intros [12:04] <@jokeefe> James O'Keefe, Somerville [12:04] <@[bsod]> i will vote for elizabeth warren, for pres... ill find a third party to cast a vote away on or scribble in none of the above, and i still need to do research on mass candidates, i need resources to find out more about my local guys [12:04] <@[bsod]> bsod, from the internets [12:04] <@[bsod]> lol [12:05] == js0000 [webchat@hlbyvr-ykd.feldberg.brandeis.edu] has left #masspirates [] [12:05] <@[bsod]> is there a way to find out exactly which people will be on the ballot this term ? [12:05] == mode/#masspirates [+l 14] by [4Q] [12:05] <@[bsod]> i know michael moore will be, since ironically the DNC has been mailing me since i signed up at michaelmoore.com, no relation to the candidate [12:06] == js0000 [~jsaylor@hlbyvr-ykd.feldberg.brandeis.edu] has joined #masspirates [12:06] == mode/#masspirates [+v js0000] by [4Q] [12:06] == mode/#masspirates [+l 15] by [4Q] [12:06] <@[bsod]> hey js0000 [12:06] <@[bsod]> welcome [12:06] <+js0000> hi [12:06] <+js0000> or maybe "yo ho ho" [12:06] <+js0000> [ducks] [12:06] <@[bsod]> heh [12:07] * [bsod] throws something [12:07] * js0000 watches projectile pass by [12:07] <@[bsod]> heh, logs <passtab> why the fuck am i ops in here! <passtab> quits [12:07] <@jokeefe> yes, bsod, go to http://www.wheredoivotema.com/bal/myelectioninfo.aspx & enter in your address, when the new page comes up, click on My State Ballot [12:08] <@[bsod]> thanks so much [12:08] <@[bsod]> now i just have to google about their past votes for the ones ive never heard of [12:08] <@jokeefe> so one else want to out themselves? [12:08] <@jokeefe> with as much if as you wish [12:09] <@[bsod]> hehe, stein [12:09] <+js0000> stein too here [12:09] <@[bsod]> i voted for her for governor, 1% baby yea [12:09] <+js0000> and yes on prop 1 2 3 [12:10] <@[bsod]> ya, mine as well, i dislike obomney to the point where ill vote for stein knowing im gonna loose [12:10] <+js0000> she was arrested [again] yesterday for protesting keystone XL [12:10] <+js0000> now that's a leader ... [12:10] <@jokeefe> yes [12:10] <@passstab> what about Johnson? [12:11] <@[bsod]> wasnt he the governor of new mexico or some crap [12:11] <@passstab> so? [12:12] <@[bsod]> oh [12:12] <@[bsod]> and did a crappy job and ousted his weird point of view [12:12] <@[bsod]> i should have added that [12:12] <@[bsod]> JAMES P. McGOVERN 393 Burncoat St., Worcester [12:12] <@[bsod]> Candidate for re-election [12:12] <@jokeefe> any other opinions / votes on Question 1? [12:12] <@jokeefe> mildbeard? [12:12] <@[bsod]> i voted against him like 2 years ago or so... i thought reps only went up once every 4 [12:12] <@mildbeard> i say yes [12:12] <@[bsod]> yes to what!! [12:12] <@jokeefe> reps 2, senate 6 [12:12] <@[bsod]> lol [12:13] <@jokeefe> state reps/senate 2 [12:13] <@[bsod]> oh, intresting, so ill get a ton of chances to get him [12:13] <@[bsod]> cept he's running unopposed [12:13] <@mildbeard> sorry, about question 1. [12:13] <@[bsod]> lol [12:13] <+davidd> so this guy from mass has a good explanation why you should vote "third" party https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtddD80zrYc [12:13] <@[bsod]> last time the guy running against him was some crazy dood who wanted to 'get the immigrants' [12:14] <@jokeefe> question 1 seems to be right up our alley - people should have the right to info about their posessions. [12:14] <@[bsod]> he looks like its gonna be a joke video [12:14] <@[bsod]> was 1 the right to repair ? [12:15] <@[bsod]> i have a sealed transmission, 'can only be fixed at the dealer' and that pisses me off cause their prices dont have competition [12:15] <@jokeefe> yes [12:16] <@jokeefe> ok, moving along, any other opinions on question 1 [12:16] <@mildbeard> Honestly I feel that all 3 questions are right up our alley, and I think we should basically support them all. [12:16] <@[bsod]> and apparently, this is something chevy started doing which effects people in all the states, in maine where everyones a mechanic and an oil change costs $10, i cant get my transmission flushed [12:16] * js0000 wants to hook a usb cable to my kia [12:16] <@[bsod]> annoyed [12:17] <@jokeefe> prius has a usb port, btw, but it is only for charging. [12:17] <@[bsod]> no more on question 1 i guess, im going to ramble im drunk [12:17] <@[bsod]> lol [12:17] <@[bsod]> i work overnights now, no ones home right now, almost my bed time... this is night time on my clock [12:18] <@jokeefe> I favor 1 & 3, and am unsure about 2. [12:18] <+js0000> bsod: it's 5PM somewhere [12:18] <@mildbeard> which is 2? [12:18] <@[bsod]> also davidd's cause he's 6 hours ahead [12:18] <@jokeefe> So with there being no objections 1 & 3 are supported [12:18] <+js0000> 2 is physician assisted suicide [12:18] <@jokeefe> yes [12:18] <@[bsod]> 2 i think was about killing old people or medical pot [12:18] <+js0000> marijuana is 3 [12:19] <@jokeefe> correct [12:19] <@[bsod]> now are our irc votes holding any bearing on the official stance of the party? [12:19] <+js0000> jokeefe: so what's your hesitation on supporting 2 [12:19] <@jokeefe> yes, bsod [12:19] <@[bsod]> i just wish more people showed up to these things if it's going to be done that way [12:19] <@jokeefe> on ballot question 2 - see http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/146648-killing-with-kindness-why-the-death-with-dignity-/ [12:19] <@jokeefe> me too, bsod. [12:19] <@[bsod]> or perhaps if we proposed a vote and waited til next week for respondants [12:20] <@[bsod]> is liquid feedback working yet? [12:20] <@jokeefe> we tried liquid feedback for about a month, but it didn't work the way we expected it to. [12:20] <@[bsod]> because of software bugs or because of not enough participants? [12:21] <@[bsod]> germany is bigger than massachusetts i gather [12:21] <@[bsod]> lo [12:21] <@[bsod]> lol* [12:21] <@mildbeard> So as I see it, the arguments against question 2 don't touch the core of the issue, which is whether it's OK for a patient to want to terminate their life early. [12:21] <@[bsod]> where's our spoon, she usually votes [12:22] <+js0000> i don't think any legislation will fixed shortsighted attitudes in medical professionals [12:22] <@[bsod]> im on the pro murder side of the argument, i say kill fetuses, and old people but not inmates cause i could quickly become an inmate but i cant quickly become old [12:22] <+js0000> the phoenix article seems to be arguing more against that than against the proposition [12:22] <@mildbeard> The arguments seem to be that there could be minor tweaks or improvements to the initiative, or that doctors will terminate patients' lives against their wills. [12:23] <+js0000> mildbeard: aren't those just scare tactics? [12:23] <@mildbeard> I agree, and that's why I support the initiative. [12:23] <+js0000> no legislation is perfect certainly [12:23] <@[bsod]> i stand against scott brown when he supported a law that gave doctors the right to refuse to treat patients based on their own religion or moral ground [12:23] <@[bsod]> and by that i mean orthotrycyclene works, ive tested many times [12:23] == teamcoltra [~travis_mc@uld-19-86-09-80.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #masspirates [12:24] == mode/#masspirates [+v teamcoltra] by [4Q] [12:24] <@mildbeard> If a doctor terminates a disabled person's life against their will, then it's not an assisted suicide. [12:24] <@[bsod]> hey travis [12:24] == mode/#masspirates [+l 16] by [4Q] [12:24] <@jokeefe> hi teamcoltra [12:24] <@[bsod]> against the doctors will or against the disabled persons will [12:24] <@jokeefe> agreed mildbeard [12:24] <@mildbeard> against the patient's will [12:25] <@mildbeard> in that case it would be murder [12:25] <@[bsod]> im way too lazy for the ' today [12:25] <@jokeefe> however, we live in a society that does not provide much support for those with disabilities [12:25] <@[bsod]> i agree, that sounds like murder if you ask me [12:25] <@[bsod]> who said that might be something that happens [12:25] <+js0000> jokeefe: are looking for somekinda rider for people with disabilities? [12:25] <@[bsod]> we provide ample for millions of people who are scamming the system with disability claims [12:25] <@jokeefe> it isn't hard to conceive of people who would choose suicide when they didn't know about alternatives [12:26] <@[bsod]> just dont get a real disability [12:26] <+teamcoltra> Hey guys [12:26] <@[bsod]> that sounds so parrallel to an abortion arguement [12:26] <+teamcoltra> If I could be all politician like -- has Mass talked about who it was planning on voting for? [12:26] <@[bsod]> suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem [12:27] <@jokeefe> well http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/ele12/ballot_questions_12/quest_2.htm does say that a doctor can (4) refer the patient for psychiatric or psychological consultation if the physician believes the patient may have a disorder causing impaired judgment; [12:27] <@mildbeard> right, I wouldn't accept an anti-abortion argument that we should ban abortion because there's no guarantee that mothers don't know about adoption. [12:27] <@[bsod]> that's what they're getting to now teamcoltra [12:27] <@jokeefe> anyone know how this differs from the law in Oregon? [12:27] <@jokeefe> good point, mildbeard [12:28] <@mildbeard> My feeling about this and the medical marijuana law is - pass it now and fix any problems later. The voters aren't going to get a second chance on a perfectly-worded ballot question. [12:28] <@jokeefe> teamcoltra, voting for? [12:28] <@[bsod]> to me, i dont think self termination should be illegal, and by extension self harm such as drug use and i think compelled psyiatric care is abused to suck in federal funding at the cost of poor peoples lives, and [12:29] <@[bsod]> no and, that was a weird copy paste [12:30] <@jokeefe> info on oregon's death with dignity act [12:30] <@[bsod]> i think the law, applies in the case of terminal patients who really really do have no alternative, not aniext teenagers who feel their parents give them too many chores [12:31] <@[bsod]> like, you can die now... or in 5 minutes from now naturally with alot more pain [12:31] <@jokeefe> agreed, bsod [12:32] <@jokeefe> teamcoltra, you asked about us supporting candidates? [12:33] <@mildbeard> Since MA is safely blue, I'm thinking of voting green in the national election, and democrat for senate and house. I don't want the national legislature to get even redder. [12:33] <@[bsod]> mass people are weird, sometimes they like a republican when the dems get crazy [12:33] <+teamcoltra> Sorry guys my internet is being VERY laggy for whatever reason, Time Warner is blaming it on the storms but blahhhh [12:33] <@[bsod]> but usually its a republican who is more moderate than normal [12:33] <@jokeefe> on oregon law "Since the law was passed in 1997, a total of 935 people have had DWDA prescriptions written and 596 patients have died from ingesting medications prescribed under the DWDA." [12:34] <+teamcoltra> jokeefe I was actually talking about PNC elections :P [12:34] <@jokeefe> k, thanks [12:34] <@[bsod]> what kind of medicine is it, i would assume a lethal dose of morphine would be administered [12:35] <@[bsod]> that way you either die happy, or in such a way that people think you might have been happy but no one ever really finds out [12:35] <@mildbeard> We haven't talked about national issues yet. [12:35] <@[bsod]> ever seen a lethal injection, those people dont go as quietly as youve been led to believe [12:38] <@jokeefe> I'll abstain on question 2 for now. [12:38] <@jokeefe> So with my abstention, the position seems to be for supporting question 2. [12:38] <@jokeefe> anyone care to write up the positions on 1 & 2? [12:39] <@jokeefe> I can do 3. [12:39] <@jokeefe> or 1. [12:39] <@mildbeard> What kind of write-up are you looking for? [12:39] <@jokeefe> doesn't need to be long, just " because of principle X, we believe that voters should support ballot question Y" [12:40] <@mildbeard> OK I can do that. [12:40] <@mildbeard> Whatever ones you want. [12:41] <@jokeefe> You do 2 & I'll do 1 & 3, unless someone else wants to tackle them. [12:41] <@mildbeard> ok [12:41] <@jokeefe> thanks [12:41] <@jokeefe> so 2. National party update ? [12:41] <@[bsod]> sry cant do anything today [12:42] <@mildbeard> We are having elections for national officer positions. [12:42] <@mildbeard> travis and kusanagi are nominated for both captain and first officer. [12:42] <@[bsod]> as a team or against eachother [12:43] <@mildbeard> They are both up for the two positions. [12:43] <@mildbeard> Sacha is also up for first officer. [12:43] <@[bsod]> thats quirky [12:43] <@mildbeard> Caleb Langeslag of the IT Committee is up for quartermaster. [12:43] <@jokeefe> what other positions? [12:43] <@mildbeard> that's it. [12:43] <@jokeefe> k [12:43] <@[bsod]> i like them both but i disagree with kusangi's stance against tuebl [12:43] <@[bsod]> i think tuebl is cool [12:44] <@jokeefe> what is the issue with tuebl (also what is tuebl)? [12:44] <@mildbeard> I should solicit input from MAPP prior to casting the Mass ballot in this election. [12:44] <@jokeefe> agreed [12:44] <@[bsod]> tuebl is travis mccrea's site [12:45] <@[bsod]> its megaupload for ebooks [12:45] <@[bsod]> lol [12:45] <@[bsod]> http://tuebl.com/ [12:45] <@jokeefe> oh the book sharing thing. [12:45] <@[bsod]> kusangi thinks its sketchy for the party to be directly associated with copyright infringement [12:45] <@[bsod]> which it is, but to me, isnt that the point [12:46] <@jokeefe> are any other pirate parties associated with it? [12:46] <@[bsod]> glyn moody wrote that the german pirates are loosing peoples attention because they came on with the radical idea of copyright reform, and then when in power shoot for small insignifficant proposals [12:47] <@[bsod]> with tuebl? [12:47] <@jokeefe> yes [12:47] <@[bsod]> i would assume the canadian party because travis was from there [12:47] <@[bsod]> maybe he's lurking and can answer that [12:47] <@jokeefe> best not to assume [12:47] <@[bsod]> heh [12:47] <@mildbeard> The primary thing that we need to do to grow the party in my opinion is to have compelling positions on the issues that are most concerning to voters, and for those issues to make a lot of sense based on what we stand for. [12:47] <@[bsod]> it makes an ass of you and ume [12:48] <@mildbeard> This election comes down to leadership rather than specific positions, though, in my opinion. [12:48] <@jokeefe> when are the elections? [12:49] <@[bsod]> as far as leadership skills, i dont think either of them are a falkvinge lol [12:49] <@jokeefe> not as a knock to teamcoltra, but the idea of having 2 of 3 officers be women is a good one to me. [12:49] <@[bsod]> he's got a good handle on persuasive writting and the english language that helps alot [12:49] <@mildbeard> Well, we have nominations that are supposed to be finished. We were hoping to meet this week to see if we could have a vote. But it's my understanding that the PNC was cancelled for halloween and Sandy. [12:50] <@jokeefe> yes [12:50] <@[bsod]> im not a feminist, i believe in equality, gender should be irrelavant [12:50] <@[bsod]> unless they're hot [12:50] <@[bsod]> hehe [12:50] <@jokeefe> not going there [12:51] <+teamcoltra> I don't like the idea of saying blindly "having x women is good" but I do agree that encouraging women to serve officer positions within the party is a great thing. [12:51] <@jokeefe> can we get their statements as to what they want the USPP to do over the next year and how they aim to achieve it? [12:51] <@[bsod]> it would be nice to have a picture perfect representative selling us to the people, not nessicarilly a sexist thing, we could hire john hamm from mad men [12:51] <@jokeefe> agreed teamcoltra. [12:52] <@[bsod]> yea teamcoltra, esicially since they are missing from the IT sector according to reports ive read [12:52] <+teamcoltra> My biggest concern with Liz is her ability to handle conflict, and the fact that she has already stated that she has no intention of stepping down as leader of NYPP after she wins the election. [12:53] <@[bsod]> oh? that's all? [12:53] <+teamcoltra> :P my biggest concerns [12:53] <@[bsod]> hehe [12:54] <+teamcoltra> Even though I am now also living in New York, I have tried to keep myself distanced from the state party (I am forming a local Buffalo Pirate Party, but trying to keep out of the state wide scene as much as possible) because as leader who currently has a job function of settling disputes between states -- I think it would be unfair of me (or any leader) to put their state ahead of the organizational good. [12:54] <@[bsod]> one of my concerns with the USPP, compared to the swedish party where radical sites like wikileaks and the piratebay are advocated... we seem timid on freedom of speech issues because we assume we have them already.. tuebl could be our equilivant [12:55] <@[bsod]> minus mispells and poor gramer [12:56] <@[bsod]> from the channel, alot of the people ive talked to in #uspp, do not support richard odwyer, do not care about the piratebay, and call themselves kopimists but think artists should be paid [12:56] <+teamcoltra> Here is my stance on TUEBL: I am not doing anything illegal, all content is uploaded and the person who uploads it says they own the rights to it. If I get a DMCA request I remove the content. The "Featured Books" are all books that were confirmed to have been uploaded by the author (because the author reached out to me and said "hey thanks for TUEBL I am putting all my books on it". However, I like to be... not very [12:56] <+teamcoltra> political... about how I handle it so I don't know how much I would want to mix it's image with PP's image [12:56] <@[bsod]> it seems contrary [12:57] <+teamcoltra> [bsod] actually many of them think kopimism is a joke. I have one of the only official kopimist church's in the United States complete with 501(c)3 status and corporation. [12:57] <+teamcoltra> Though, again, I don't think my religious beliefs should be tied into the party. I am a kopimist, and I am a pirate. I am not Mit Romney ;) [12:58] <+davidd> what a coincidence, i am not mit romney either [12:58] * teamcoltra high fives [12:58] <@[bsod]> i mean though, she's right, the party will be associated with tuebl regardless if you remain both captian and owner of the site [12:59] <@[bsod]> anyways, thoughts from the masspirates? [12:59] <+teamcoltra> When it does though, then the argument is made that TUEBL is operating 100% within US law and if anyone would like to file a lawsuit then we can determine legality then [13:00] <@jokeefe> well, I say we get the info we need to make a decision, people can give their opinion to mildbeard/SplendidSpoon and let them decide