March 20th, 2012 IRC Meeting

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Agenda

1. Conference thoughts

2. National Party issues

3. The Party of Open?

4. Public policy questions to put on the Nov. 2012 ballot?

5. Anything else others want to bring up.

Quick Notes / Summaries Re Proposed Bills to be Discussed:

1. Conference thoughts

2. National Party issues

3. The Party of Open?

David Hardwick suggested that we be the party of open, namely: 

   * Open Government - increased government transparency
   * Open Culture - limited copyrights & more sharing
   * Open Innovation - no patents

A few unresolved questions: 

   * How to make increased personal privacy open?
   * How to make reining in corporations open?
   * Is Open Government or Open Democracy more true to our ideals and objectives?

Erik noted:

"open" is one of the critical ideas but not the only one. We're also the party of the human being, which explains the personal privacy and reining in corporations.

I think open government is the right phrasing. I also believe in participatory government. Democracy may be the best model so far, but we should be willing to try something even better in the future.

4. Public policy questions to put on the Nov. 2012 ballot?

Attending

  • bsod - http://activepolitic.com:82/
  • jokeefe - James O'Keefe, Somerville
  • SplendidSpoon - Lauren Pespisa, Boxboro/Cambridge
  • erixoltan - Erik Zoltan, Framingham
  • wingedearth - Andrew A. Anissi, Jamaica Plain
  • politux

Summary

1. Conference thoughts

Somebody had a very good question about privacy. We were videotaping the conference and streaming it, and he wasn't aware that he had been asked or informed, and that as an audience member he might be appearing on the web without permission.

We resolved that for future events we only stream/record speakers and post an upfront disclaimer that our events are public, but that we would aim our recording devices at speakers. The actions of others we do not control.

The audio and lighting were not what we needed it to be, though erixoltan is trying to fix it. In the future we should do a walk through of a site where we will be streaming, and have wireless mics and better lighting.

2. National Party issues

3. The Party of Open?

4. Public policy questions to put on the Nov. 2012 ballot? - Moved to next meeting

5. Planned events: 

   o  Get JP on the ballot
   o  March 29th - Ignite 9, MIT?
   o  April 4th - Together Boston panel on patents
   o  April 7th - Together Boston Tabling - Lauren & others
   o  April 7/8th - BarCamp, MIT?
   o  April 6-8th - PaxEast, Boston Convention Center?
   o  April 6-8th - AnimeBoston, Hynes Convention center?
   o  April ? - Extravaganja
   o  May 12th: Film Festival
   o  June: Boston Pride
   o  July
      o Art Beat
      o Pirate Picnic?
   o  August Mini conference
   o  September: Freedom Rally
   o  Oct-Dec: Local Issues conference

Meeting Minutes

<nowiki>

[12:03] <jokeefe> Agenda etc. at http://masspirates.org/wiki/index.php?title=March_20th,_2012_IRC_Meeting [12:03] <jokeefe> Item 1. Conference thoughts [12:03] <jokeefe> You want to lead erixoltan? [12:04] <erixoltan> Sure. [12:05] <erixoltan> Somebody had a very good question about privacy. We were videotaping the conference and streaming it, and he wasn't aware that he had been asked or informed, and that as an audience member he might be appearing on the web without permission. [12:06] <SplendidSpoon> It is an important thing to consider [12:06] <erixoltan> I know we did mention this in some of the literature, but I thought it would be an opportunity to be more proactive about it in a future conference. [12:06] <SplendidSpoon> but that guy also seemed to enjoy being angry [12:06] <erixoltan> Yeah. [12:06] <jokeefe> It is a public space and a public event. [12:06] <SplendidSpoon> Yea [12:07] <jokeefe> I suggest that in the future, we only stream/record speakers. Though an upfront disclaimer will make things clear [12:08] <erixoltan> Sounds like a plan. [12:08] <SplendidSpoon> Yea [12:09] <erixoltan> My second thing had to do with sound and lighting. [12:09] <[bsod]> whats more important, privacy or free speech, sometimes the issues colide [12:10] <jokeefe> the thing is anyone could have recorded the conference, and some did. [12:10] <jokeefe> we cannot control the actions of others [12:10] <jokeefe> public is public [12:10] <SplendidSpoon> Right [12:10] <SplendidSpoon> It's public [12:11] <SplendidSpoon> and it's an event [12:11] <SplendidSpoon> Not just like, a street corner [12:11] <[bsod]> dont you have an expected right to privacy if its indoors [12:11] <erixoltan> True, it's a public event. But since privacy is one of our issues, I feel that our actions should serve as a model. I think Jamie's idea of a disclaimer is a good idea. [12:11] <SplendidSpoon> Yea we should be clear so there's no surprises [12:11] <SplendidSpoon> and just focus on speakers [12:11] <[bsod]> i think im more concerned about privacy from mircosoft and the nsa than i am from some teen with an iphone [12:11] == wingedearth [266f244f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.111.36.79] has joined #masspirates [12:12] <[bsod]> i dont think anyone can really stop iphones [12:12] <wingedearth> who is trying to stop iphones? [12:12] <[bsod]> heh, about privacy being a primary issue [12:12] <jokeefe> bsod + [12:12] <[bsod]> i think sometimes privacy and freee speech collide [12:13] <wingedearth> yeah, no privacy on iphones. but smart phones are really useful [12:13] <[bsod]> lol [12:13] <jokeefe> agenda at http://masspirates.org/wiki/index.php?title=March_20th,_2012_IRC_Meeting [12:13] <wingedearth> so we need a smart phone that works like anonymous internet [12:13] <SplendidSpoon> I don't think people should expect much privacy at a "event" [12:13] <SplendidSpoon> Like that [12:13] <SplendidSpoon> there was press [12:13] <[bsod]> ya cool [12:13] <SplendidSpoon> people signing in/registering [12:13] <[bsod]> an explicit warning couldnt hurt tho [12:13] <wingedearth> the problem with privacy on phones is that all mobile networks are non-private [12:13] <SplendidSpoon> It's not like a secret club meeting [12:14] <SplendidSpoon> Ye [12:14] <wingedearth> it's not like the Internet [12:14] <wingedearth> it's all Bellhead [12:14] <erixoltan> Like "this coffee is hot..." [12:14] <SplendidSpoon> YEA [12:14] <SplendidSpoon> lol [12:15] <erixoltan> My only other concern was about lighting/sound. The video would look better if I had taken that issue more seriously. [12:15] <erixoltan> And I wanted to find out if anyone had thoughts on the lighting/sound question? [12:15] <jokeefe> Wireless mics in the future [12:15] <jokeefe> and lights [12:15] <[bsod]> find some drama students lol [12:16] <jokeefe> we should have a walk through for any future event that will be streamed so we test things out, perhaps? [12:16] <erixoltan> Yeah. [12:16] <wingedearth> are there videos up yet from the conference? [12:16] <erixoltan> I am transcoding them now and expect to have the first one up tonight. [12:17] <jokeefe> erixoltan +1 [12:17] <[bsod]> what format are we going with [12:17] <wingedearth> how about mp4? [12:17] <[bsod]> sounds fine [12:17] <erixoltan> Well, I'm posting them on YouTube. There is now a masspirates channel. [12:17] <[bsod]> ah [12:17] <wingedearth> oh that works [12:17] <[bsod]> easy to rip from youtube [12:17] <wingedearth> keepvid? [12:17] <[bsod]> i just do a weird thing where i steal the temp file left in the browser cache [12:18] <wingedearth> oh, I see [12:18] <[bsod]> it leaves a whole .flv in there [12:18] <jokeefe> it will be most of the talks, but not all. we didn't get all [12:19] <[bsod]> is there enough intrest to put things on bittorrent? [12:19] <wingedearth> nah [12:19] <erixoltan> It would be piratical... [12:19] <[bsod]> ya, would be cool if there was [12:19] <wingedearth> youtube or vimeo is neough [12:19] <wingedearth> enough* [12:19] <jokeefe> if there is a place to host them. [12:20] <[bsod]> you mean for a seeder? [12:20] <wingedearth> at the same time, it's nice to add more fully authorized stuff onto bit torrent [12:20] <jokeefe> agreed [12:20] <[bsod]> but they go dud if no one wants it [12:20] <erixoltan> Is anyone an expert on posting content to BitTorrent? I had trouble because I wasn't doing a great job of it last time. [12:20] <[bsod]> it also feels self defeating when that happens [12:21] == wingedearth [266f244f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.111.36.79] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [12:21] <[bsod]> im not sure if there is a such thing as an expert [12:21] <erixoltan> Meaning - done it successfully in the past... [12:21] <[bsod]> heh, yes [12:21] <[bsod]> i used to add vodo rls to thepiratebay [12:22] <erixoltan> Well, if you could help out or walk me through it then I can post them. [12:22] <[bsod]> sure [12:22] <jokeefe> thanks [12:22] <[bsod]> im on irc 24/7 [12:22] <erixoltan> wow [12:23] <[bsod]> im not actually always here, but my nick is lol [12:23] <[bsod]> i have conversations on irc that span days sometimes [12:24] <[bsod]> so, just lemme know when youre ready, send a pm or something [12:24] <erixoltan> thanks will do. [12:24] <[bsod]> you live in framingham eh [12:24] <erixoltan> yep [12:24] <[bsod]> we had a pirate politician running for state rep in middlesex [12:25] <[bsod]> i used to live there [12:25] <erixoltan> I can vote for him then? [12:25] <jokeefe> No, lowell [12:25] <jokeefe> JP [12:25] <[bsod]> isnt that the same county tho? [12:25] <jokeefe> yes, but not same district [12:25] <[bsod]> ah [12:26] <jokeefe> sadly we don't have multimember districts [12:26] <jokeefe> Shall we move on to item 2. National Party issues [12:26] <jokeefe> ? [12:26] <[bsod]> sure, which issues [12:26] <erixoltan> I wanted to bring up 2 things about that. [12:27] <erixoltan> THe first is that there are two national meetings, one Tue 9pm and the other Wed 9pm. [12:27] <erixoltan> The Tuesday is the open meeting and the Wed is the PNC. [12:27] <[bsod]> where are these? [12:28] <erixoltan> just a sec [12:28] <jokeefe> https://webchat.pirateirc.net/?nick=&channels=uspp [12:28] <jokeefe> #pnc for the Wed meeting [12:28] <jokeefe> more details at http://us.pirate.is/archives/48 [12:29] <erixoltan> right. [12:29] <[bsod]> cool found it [12:29] <[bsod]> heh, K`Tetch_ is everywhere [12:29] <jokeefe> yes [12:29] <erixoltan> I was planning to attend both meetings this week but my wife has scheduled conflicting events. I will be late on Tue and probably miss the whole thing on Wed. [12:29] <SplendidSpoon> I can do it tonight [12:30] <[bsod]> i can always attend online things [12:30] <SplendidSpoon> Don't know about tomorrow. [12:30] <jokeefe> I can do tomorrow [12:30] <[bsod]> do you want me to send you the logs from that after/ [12:30] <SplendidSpoon> ok cool [12:30] <jokeefe> sure, bsod, that would be helpful [12:30] <[bsod]> k [12:30] <[bsod]> who logs this channel, is that you jokeefe [12:31] <[bsod]> i noticed our conversations get posted later [12:31] <jokeefe> aye, ctrl-c / ctrl-v [12:31] <erixoltan> Thanks so much. [12:31] <jokeefe> well this meeting [12:31] <erixoltan> My observation from the last mtg was that somebody needs to step up and facilitate, since everyone was being too polite to take charge. [12:31] <SplendidSpoon> <3 ctrl-C ctrl-V [12:31] <[bsod]> that could happen [12:31] <[bsod]> ive never attended [12:31] <SplendidSpoon> lol [12:31] <SplendidSpoon> I can see that happening [12:31] <jokeefe> it used to be that faciltation was rotated, but the person making that happen has been busy [12:32] <[bsod]> dont let volunteerism suck your life away [12:32] <jokeefe> agenda item for start of the mtg should be choosing factiltator for next mtg [12:32] <erixoltan> It was a great meeting once it got going. [12:33] <jokeefe> I think in the future, erixoltan, when you need someone to sub, bring it up here or contact me or SplendidSpoon [12:33] <erixoltan> OK will do. Thanks. [12:33] <jokeefe> what is the capsule summary of the meeting? [12:34] <erixoltan> They are having web site issues. They are working on a piratenpad document summarizing the agenda and are in the early stages of making progress towards what is the US Pirate Party... [12:35] <jokeefe> always an interesting discussion [12:35] <erixoltan> I liked their collaboration tools. [12:35] <jokeefe> what other national issues should we discuss? [12:35] <erixoltan> those were my only ones. [12:35] <jokeefe> I know another book is in the works. [12:36] <erixoltan> Want to write something about patents. [12:36] <jokeefe> K`Tetch is organizing it, IIRC. [12:36] <[bsod]> always busy [12:36] <jokeefe> You should! [12:36] <[bsod]> a whole book about patents? [12:37] <[bsod]> usually when i want to rant it fits into a nice small blogpost [12:37] <jokeefe> probably note [12:37] <erixoltan> The "No Safe Harbor" book didn't seem to have an essay on the subject, so there's a new book coming out and I though there should be something on the subject. [12:37] <[bsod]> ah [12:37] <jokeefe> SplendidSpoon, you might think of turning your talk into an article for the book. [12:37] <erixoltan> jokeefe + [12:37] <SplendidSpoon> Hmmm [12:38] <SplendidSpoon> I guess I could.... [12:38] <SplendidSpoon> I'm not much of a writer... [12:38] <[bsod]> me neither, thats why i do it all the time [12:38] <jokeefe> You have until sometime September. [12:38] <SplendidSpoon> lol okl [12:38] <SplendidSpoon> I will think about it [12:38] <jokeefe> all we can ask [12:38] <jokeefe> So, next item 3. The Party of Open? [12:39] <SplendidSpoon> Not like....the OPEN Act right? [12:39] <[bsod]> heh [12:39] <jokeefe> yay no [12:39] <jokeefe> real open [12:39] <jokeefe> David Hardwick suggested that open should be our brand in a sense. [12:39] <[bsod]> we should throw an open party [12:40] <jokeefe> Open Government - increased government transparency [12:40] <jokeefe> Open Culture - limited copyrights & more sharing [12:40] <jokeefe> Open Innovation - no patents [12:40] <SplendidSpoon> That makes sense [12:40] <[bsod]> engstron goes into closed door meetings then comes out and tells everyone what happened [12:40] <SplendidSpoon> Doesn't seem to collide with anything on the platform [12:40] <SplendidSpoon> lol [12:40] <SplendidSpoon> Does that piss everyone off? [12:41] <[bsod]> yes [12:41] <[bsod]> in a sense, we're gonna quasi emulate what sweden is doing [12:41] <SplendidSpoon> lol [12:41] <SplendidSpoon> Yea I like Sweden [12:41] <SplendidSpoon> Ever since I was 12 [12:41] <[bsod]> do we ever communicate with pp-international [12:41] <SplendidSpoon> I was like..."why don't we do that?" [12:41] <SplendidSpoon> looking at Sweden [12:41] <jokeefe> it leaves open things like privacy and corp power [12:41] <jokeefe> open that is. [12:41] <[bsod]> i know right, they have road signs that say "fart" [12:41] <SplendidSpoon> We could probably communicate with them [12:41] <SplendidSpoon> on pirate irc [12:42] <jokeefe> erixoltan can speak of his suggestions, though [12:42] <jokeefe> I remember [12:42] <[bsod]> they might be a good tool for promoting our legitimacy [12:42] <[bsod]> lot of people follow them [12:42] <jokeefe> when he suggested we be the anti-monopoly party [12:42] <SplendidSpoon> I think we should coordinate with the PPI [12:43] <erixoltan> I think anti-monopoly and pro-person. Those are two other angles that complement "open". [12:43] <SplendidSpoon> But that also means people have to coordinate with the PPI [12:43] <SplendidSpoon> Which is like...work [12:43] <[bsod]> we have too many monopolies in massachusetts, maybe if you dont drink wine or smoke tobacco you never noticed [12:43] <jokeefe> So a troika/triad/triangle ... [12:43] <[bsod]> until you go to walmart [12:44] <jokeefe> I don't expect us to decide now, but I want to gather thoughts [12:44] <SplendidSpoon> I like being anti-monopoly [12:44] <erixoltan> I do think we need to boil it down into very simple terms, to avoid confusing people. [12:44] <[bsod]> yea, people always cheat in that game [12:45] <jokeefe> tangent: Is there a board game where you are supposed to cheat? [12:45] <jokeefe> Perhaps, Wall St. the game? [12:45] <erixoltan> Well, there's double bughouse... [12:46] <[bsod]> always keep things simple [12:46] <jokeefe> simple, not simplistic [12:46] <[bsod]> right [12:46] <[bsod]> simpliest terms [12:47] <[bsod]> so, next issue? [12:48] <jokeefe> open, human, anti-monopoly? [12:48] <erixoltan> polyopoly??... [12:48] <[bsod]> i mean i watched that show big love, seemed alright [12:48] <[bsod]> (kidding) [12:49] <erixoltan> lmao [12:49] <jokeefe> there is a parrot joke in there, but I won't bring it up [12:49] <[bsod]> heh [12:50] <[bsod]> i have a friend who is a registered mass pirate party member, who is always on irc and never thinks to join here [12:51] <jokeefe> invite him [12:51] <[bsod]> just did [12:51] <jokeefe> kewl [12:51] == politux [~politux@c-24-128-152-248.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #masspirates [12:51] <[bsod]> there he is [12:51] <jokeefe> hi politux [12:51] <[bsod]> hello politux [12:51] <politux> hi guys [12:52] <[bsod]> ya, so what were we talking about [12:52] <jokeefe> agenda here http://masspirates.org/wiki/index.php?title=March_20th,_2012_IRC_Meeting [12:52] <jokeefe> on item 3 The Party of Open? [12:52] <jokeefe> thinking about simple branding of ourselves [12:52] <[bsod]> i like free speech as a main issue [12:53] <jokeefe> how do we explain what we are for in as few words as possible [12:53] <[bsod]> and it has to be catchy [12:53] <jokeefe> aye [12:53] <jokeefe> free speech is good [12:54] <SplendidSpoon> I like the party of open, just not the OPEN act [12:54] <erixoltan> Republicans say that unlimited spending on campaign advertising is a free speech issue. [12:54] <SplendidSpoon> Damn I had a really good convo with David House yesterday about branding et [12:54] <[bsod]> yea, and that tobacco ruling lately [12:54] <politux> corporations don't equal people and money shouldn't equal speech [12:54] <SplendidSpoon> Wish he was involved with Pirate Party more that guys a genius [12:54] <jokeefe> politux +1 [12:55] <SplendidSpoon> Indeed [12:55] <erixoltan> yeah [12:55] <SplendidSpoon> I also like being sort of a party of new ideas [12:55] <jokeefe> so what did David suggest? [12:55] <[bsod]> meanwhile, theres a ton of things you cant say [12:55] <SplendidSpoon> Not tied to old, tired dogma [12:55] <SplendidSpoon> Nothing particular for us, just about branding and culture in general and how to appeal to masses and stuff. I dont remember exactly anything good :( [12:56] <[bsod]> the party of internet freedoms and open governments [12:56] <[bsod]> too generic [12:56] <[bsod]> keep it rolling, just blurt things out until somethings catchy [12:56] <politux> Open Internet, Open Government [12:56] <SplendidSpoon> The future is natually evolving past old dichotomy of capitalism/socialism democrat/republican etc [12:56] <erixoltan> I think "The Party of Open" is a good tag line, and I like the troika you mentioned as a subtitle. [12:56] <SplendidSpoon> we need people who will embrace change [12:57] <jokeefe> yes [12:57] <SplendidSpoon> Embrace whatever changes will lead to less oppression and more flow of information/new ideas [12:57] <jokeefe> to all [12:57] <[bsod]> obama already stole change [12:57] <SplendidSpoon> lol [12:57] <SplendidSpoon> obama stole change [12:57] <SplendidSpoon> true that [12:57] <jokeefe> change in office holder, not in ideas [12:57] <SplendidSpoon> right [12:58] <[bsod]> we should attack the corruption of the 2 party system at some point [12:58] <SplendidSpoon> All 3rd parties have to do that. [12:58] <jokeefe> from different angles [12:58] <[bsod]> cept the greens are too scared [12:58] <jokeefe> why do you say that? [12:58] <[bsod]> dunno, never heard much from them [12:58] <politux> legalize non-commercial file sharing [12:59] <jokeefe> already for that [12:59] <politux> ok [12:59] <jokeefe> thinking broader [12:59] <SplendidSpoon> I don't know much about the Greens, but I will support any way to destabilize the bicameral system here. [12:59] <[bsod]> the ability to communicate to your peers in a bittorrent swarm is a privacy issue [12:59] <jokeefe> not to be snooped on [13:00] <[bsod]> or free speech, to transmit any data you want [13:00] <[bsod]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime [13:00] <jokeefe> I usually summarize privacy / transparency with "we want privacy for you and not for the government" [13:00] <[bsod]> thats a good tagline [13:01] <jokeefe> "we want to make sure you have privacy and the government doesn't" [13:01] <SplendidSpoon> Yes. I bet the Germans have one word that means just that [13:01] <jokeefe> lol [13:01] <[bsod]> did you see this http://www.stateintegrity.org/state_integrity_invesitgation_overview_story [13:01] <jokeefe> might not translate well [13:01] <SplendidSpoon> gutenflashignathinghuetuing [13:01] <SplendidSpoon> or something [13:01] <[bsod]> In Massachusetts, the barriers to access are especially daunting. Not only are the legislature, governor, and courts exempt from public records law, but legislative votes are not even recorded in committee. [13:01] <SplendidSpoon> That's bad [13:01] <[bsod]> thats the only info they had on our state [13:01] <jokeefe> saw that, tweeted/etc. about it [13:02] <jokeefe> we are a C, IIRC [13:02] <[bsod]> lol [13:02] <jokeefe> really power on budgeting and public records [13:02] <jokeefe> poor not power [13:02] <[bsod]> ah [13:02] <SplendidSpoon> Hmm [13:02] <[bsod]> that makes more sense [13:03] <SplendidSpoon> Think anyone will try to change it? [13:03] <[bsod]> people dont even know whats happening in local politics here [13:03] <SplendidSpoon> True [13:03] <[bsod]> they say one of the victums of the internet is local reporting [13:04] <SplendidSpoon> Hmmm never thought of that but it makes sense actually [13:04] <[bsod]> i know more about afghanistan than i do major changes in my towns laws if i watch the local news [13:04] <SplendidSpoon> Local news sites aren't very good then [13:04] <SplendidSpoon> ? [13:04] <[bsod]> some are okish i supose [13:04] <SplendidSpoon> or they also cover all news which dilutes local news? [13:04] <[bsod]> http://www.wickedlocal.com/ [13:04] <[bsod]> that too [13:05] <jokeefe> In somerville, there are two weekly papers, a monthly, patch and various blogs. [13:05] <[bsod]> they're competing for a voice on the global market now [13:05] <SplendidSpoon> ah [13:05] <jokeefe> it gets annoying to read the same story three or four times. [13:05] <[bsod]> yes [13:05] <jokeefe> I have them all on RSS feeds. [13:06] <[bsod]> cool, so you can report to us anything of relavance to pirates [13:06] <jokeefe> Unfortunately, the really good leftist investigative newspaper folded years agao [13:06] <[bsod]> follow @masspirates [13:06] <politux> twitter? [13:06] <[bsod]> yea [13:06] <politux> k [13:06] <jokeefe> @villepirates [13:06] <jokeefe> for Somerville at least [13:06] <[bsod]> i used to use twitter as a news source, but it got flooded with friends and irrelivant tweets so now im back to using rss [13:07] <[bsod]> i just deleted my twitter account about a month ago and created a new one and didnt tell any of my old followers lol [13:07] <jokeefe> create a list of only the accounts you follow and read that [13:07] <politux> I stopped getting tweets from CNN when the bubble boy "story" broke [13:07] <jokeefe> you really want to follow that is [13:07] <[bsod]> yea, i should make lists [13:07] <politux> balloon boy rather [13:07] <[bsod]> rss seems to work well also [13:08] <politux> rss is better I think [13:08] <[bsod]> my twitter is just spitting out the rss feeds, mostly unattended

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