August 26th, 2020 IRC Meeting
- 1 Review
- 2 Decisions/Endorsements
- 3 Projects
- 4 Tabled Projects
- 5 Upcoming Events
- 6 Participants
- 7 Summary
- 8 Minutes
Endorse the Free the Moderna Vaccine protest
This Friday 2-5pm is a protest to Free the Moderna Vaccine. Suggest we endorse this protest since patents are likely to allow Moderna to make billions of dollars from a vaccine that was discovered with NIH scientists and paid for by US taxpayers.
Goals for Q3 2020:
- Organize meetups
- Revise platform
- Organize Fundraiser
- Organize candidate trainings
- EARN IT Act
- PATRIOT Act renewal
- Legislature extended session
- Push to get Right to Repair bill to a vote.
- Some of facial recognition moratorium is in the police reform bill
- Next pirate news recording scheduled for Sunday, 7pm unless changed
Democracy and Dogfood (Tech)
Set for 8/29, 11am-1pm
- Surveillance Mapping Event
- Come up with a how to video
- Boston (jokeefe) - Sept 12th
- Worcester (Malt) - Oct 17th
- Come up with a how to video
- Party Conference - Fall
- 2021 Boston Pride Festival
- table booked
- setup signup sheet
- Need to purchase insurance
- Need volunteer sign up form
- Tie to an activity, mapping the CCTV cameras in Boston or along the Pride parade route?
Moved to 2020 Platform Discussion
Other To Do
- Application to PPI
- Post statement on Archive.org Suit
- Post statement on our support for Question 1: open access to vehicle telematics systems.
- Post statement on our opposition to S.4051 - Lawful Access to Encrypted Data Act.
- Post statement on retaining section 230 protections. Docket RM-11862
Worcester farm group is interested in having some FOSS tutorials. Perhaps:
- how to do basic labels in GIMP,
- work through a few sample spreadsheets related to seed cost and
- similarly applicable real-world situations, depending on the needs of the group
Basically how to do graph design & product management with open source tools. Malt will put together a one paragraph description of what we need and we can mail it out to ask pirates to help.
- Every Tuesday, 7-9pm, Mass MeshNet Tech Meeting, on-line
- 8/29, 11am-1pm, Democracy and Dogfood (Tech) Meeting, on-line
- 9/12, Boston Surveillance Mapping Outing
- 10/17, Worcester Surveillance Mapping Outing
- Fall, Party Conference
- jokeefe (James O’Keefe, Somerville)
- Joe (Joseph Onoroski, Lowell)
- jj (Jack Garbus, Waltham)
- srevilak (Steve Revilak, Arlington)
Moderna Vaccine protest
- https://www.facebook.com/events/314120066572032. Vaccine is for COVID-19.
- Development was taxpayer funded. $1.53 billion for 100m doses.
- Long discussion on patents
- Organizer's twitter feed was helpful in clarifying their objectives: https://twitter.com/ftv_boston
- Motion to support protest. Motion carries, 3-1-1.
Pirate news recording
- Sunday 7pm (but may be shifted to 8pm)
21:03 <@jokeefe> Agenda: https://masspirates.org/wiki/August_26th,_2020_IRC_Meeting 21:03 <@jokeefe> ids 21:04 < srevilak> Steve Revilak, Arlington 21:04 <@jokeefe> James O’Keefe, Somerville 21:04 < Joe> Joseph Onoroski, Lowell 21:04 < jj> Jack Garbus, Waltham 21:04 <@jokeefe> anything to add to the agenda? 21:05 <@jokeefe> Decisions/Endorsements 21:05 <@jokeefe> Endorse the Free the Moderna Vaccine protest? 21:06 <@jokeefe> Details at https://www.facebook.com/events/314120066572032 21:06 <@jokeefe> thoughts? 21:07 < srevilak> What kind of disease was the vaccine for? 21:07 <@jokeefe> COVID-19 21:07 < jj> Do we know how much they plan to charge 21:08 <@jokeefe> It hasn’t gone through trials yet, but patents are involved so much more than cost 21:08 < Joe> thing is, it takes years for safe testing. there is no way for us to know if this work or when the side affects will be.... 21:08 < srevilak> ok, thx 21:08 < Joe> *what 21:09 < jj> I think more information would be needed 21:09 <@jokeefe> Research funding tends to be by the US government 21:10 < jj> But conducted by private companies looking to make money 21:10 <@jokeefe> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/17/moderna-soars-on-483-million-in-funding-for-coronavirus-vaccine.html 21:11 < jj> looks like the money is to accelerate the manufacturing of the vaccine 21:11 <@jokeefe> If we pay for it, why should they profit from it? 21:11 < jj> My guess is that they wouldn't have accepted the money if they would not get any profit 21:11 < jj> the US government benefits heavily from the vaccine should it be developed 21:12 <@jokeefe> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/moderna-1-5b-federal-funding-165104518.html 21:12 < jj> It is funded with taxpayer money, but in a different sense than traditional funding 21:12 < jj> in that we are just trying to speed up the development 21:12 <@jokeefe> “the company received an award of up to $1.53 billion from the U.S. government for supplying 100 million doses of its mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine candidate, mRNA-1273. The funding is for the manufacturing and delivery of initial 100 million doses of mRNA-1273 including incentive payments for timely delivery of the product.” 21:13 < jj> so the government is trying to get dibs on the vaccine essentially 21:13 < srevilak> so $15.30/dose paid to Moderna 21:14 < jj> How are the vaccines getting delivered to consumers 21:14 < jj> I feel like if consumers still need to pay out of pocket for the vaccine then there is a problem 21:14 <@jokeefe> they will if they don’t have insurance 21:15 < Joe> prob just another corporate cash grab then.... 21:15 <@jokeefe> thanks for doing the math srevilak 21:15 < jj> it looks like the government is purchasing 100 million doses 21:15 < jj> from that second link 21:15 < jj> would this vaccination not be supported by the state? 21:16 <@jokeefe> Price of HPV vaccine is $227.931 21:16 <@jokeefe> https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/awardees/vaccine-management/price-list/index.html 21:18 < jj> I'd say it's too soon to protest the privatized vaccine 21:18 < jj> But that's just me 21:19 < jj> More info is needed, especially on where those 100 million doses are going 21:19 < srevilak> Hopefully distribution of vaccines will be better than distribution of PPE early on 21:21 <@jokeefe> Another product that has too much economic concentration 21:23 <@jokeefe> I plan to go to the protest and I expect there will be another. 21:23 <@jokeefe> Can talk with them and coordinate 21:24 <@jokeefe> the organizers that is 21:24 < Joe> sounds good, could you bring a camera? 21:24 <@jokeefe> I plan to 21:24 < Joe> do a Pirate interview?!?!?!? 21:25 <@jokeefe> Good idea 21:27 <@jokeefe> Endorse? 21:28 < srevilak> Is the focus on costs or on patents? 21:28 <@jokeefe> The protest is on cost, though we could focus on patents 21:29 < srevilak> To me "free the vaccine" means that everyone should have unrestricted right to the patent 21:29 <@jokeefe> Technical difficulties Joe? 21:30 < Joe__> loading Mickey for the baby so I can "focus" 21:30 < srevilak> Joe is now on ipv6. Go Joe :) 21:30 <@jokeefe> cool 21:30 < Malt> Sam capradae Worcester 21:30 <@jokeefe> ahoy Malt 21:30 < jj> I'm a new participant, but I would say to endorse efforts when people are losing out, right now no one is losing anything 21:30 < Malt> Sorry I'm late 21:30 < Joe__> yes, makes my mobile lifestyle much easier! 21:30 < Joe__> no worries Malt! 21:31 < srevilak> I don't have issue with them making money to cover research, manufacturing, or distribution costs 21:31 <@jokeefe> Discussing endorsing the Free the Moderna Vaccine protest 21:31 < srevilak> But if there's patent exclusivity involved, then I do have an issue 21:32 < jj> If they wanted to be the sole global provider of the vaccine, they could block certain orgs from accessing it 21:32 < srevilak> jj: yes, that's what a patent would allow them to do 21:32 < Malt> If they took public money the medicine is public 21:32 < jj> There's a million and one other people working on this vaccine though 21:32 < jj> And there could feasibly be multiple vaccines 21:32 < jj> They took public money to speed up manufacturing 21:33 <@jokeefe> Seems like we are spending $1.5-2 billion to create the vaccine, but structuring it as “paying to make 100 million doses” 21:33 < jj> But paid a decent amount in R&D I'd reckon 21:33 < jj> If the public gets 100 million doses free due to the funding, it would make sense to let them have the patent, at least for the short term 21:34 < jj> with "free" in quotes 21:34 <@jokeefe> Vaccine manufacturing costs tend to be less than $15/dose 21:34 < Malt> This has to be beyond greed or it can't be trusted 21:34 < srevilak> Patents are for 20 years 21:34 < Malt> No one should get rich off this 21:35 < jj> But they should get some reward for their efforts 21:35 < jj> Not billions of dollars 21:35 < Malt> Fuck that 21:35 < Malt> Their reward is we don't riot 21:35 < jj> But we need incentives to promote vaccine development in the future 21:35 < srevilak> Sorry 14 years, not 20. My bad 21:35 < Malt> Like public funds? 21:36 < jj> No one's going to want to develop a vaccine if we force them to give up theirs 21:36 < Malt> Private enterprises do not spur vaccine Development 21:36 < Malt> Martin shkreli 21:37 < jj> A publicly funded vaccine would probably lag months behind a privatized one I'd argue 21:37 < Malt> You'd be wrong 21:38 < Malt> The vaccine needs to be distributed to workers, not the rich fucks who buy themselves a spot at the front of the line 21:38 <@jokeefe> Federal spending on COVID-19 vaccine candidates tops $9 billion, spread among 7 companies -https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/08/08/feds-spending-more-than-9-billion-covid-19-vaccine-candidates/5575206002/ 21:39 <@jokeefe> We are paying their R&D 21:39 < Malt> This is too Important to trust to greed 21:39 < jj> And we are getting 100 million doses for the public it seems 21:39 < Malt> We deserve them all 21:39 <@jokeefe> If we are paying them to create it, we should get the patent, not a private company 21:40 < Malt> Another example of rentier mentality 21:40 < Malt> The rich feel entitled to skim off public funds for public effort 21:40 < jj> A decent amount of that money is actually going straight to manufacturing though 21:41 < Malt> This is a useless point to argue 21:41 < jj> We get that you hate the rich, but greed chasing is what gets us the vaccine in the first place 21:42 < jj> If they didn't get to keep the patent, would they still devote all their resources to vaccine development? 21:42 < jj> just for some short-term funding? 21:43 < Joe__> Hence why this system needs adjusting. 21:43 < srevilak> I would expect them to devote at least $1.53B 21:43 < jj> Not if they could spend an extra year conducting other, potentially more profitable research 21:43 <@jokeefe> If they are getting paid by the government, they would. Generics are created once patents expire after all 21:44 <@jokeefe> https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/the-real-reasons-jonas-salk-didnt-patent-the-polio-vaccine.html 21:45 < jj> This is a good link 21:46 < jj> I'm not against un-patented vaccines obviously 21:46 < jj> And I think it would be amazing if Moderna didn't patent it 21:46 <@jokeefe> https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/02/case-free-or-inexpensive-coronavirus-vaccine/ 21:47 <@jokeefe> If we paid for it, why should they get the patent? 21:47 < jj> But if they patented it, but kept it affordable, I wouldn't have a problem with that 21:47 < jj> Because they most likely would not have accepted the payment if they couldn't 21:48 <@jokeefe> They would make a profit from the manufacture just like generics do. Just not super profits they would get now 21:49 < srevilak> If you consider the fed govt as employer and Moderna as a contractor developing a work for hire, 21:49 < srevilak> then there's plenty of precedent for fed govt keeping the patent 21:49 < jj> Not if the contract states otherwise 21:50 < srevilak> Of course, it depends on what the contract says 21:50 < jj> If I hire a contractor and tell them to create music for a show, but they own the rights to the music, I can't go back and remove those rights 21:50 < jj> Just because I paid them for it 21:50 < srevilak> But saying moderna wouldn't do the work if they couldn't get the patent seems equivalent saying modernas scientists would do the work if they couldn't get the patent 21:50 <@jokeefe> Disney would disagree 21:51 < Joe__> But if you hire a contractor to build your house, do they get to keep your house? 21:51 <@jokeefe> They get the copyright for works for hire 21:51 < jj> This is just a theoretical example to describe how you can't go back on an agreement 21:51 < srevilak> That's where the contract comes in. In private industry, most will stipulate that the hiring compnay (not the sub) gets to retain the IP produced by the subs work 21:52 < jj> There are certainly cases like that 21:52 < jj> This contract would not appear to be one of them 21:52 < jj> What SHOULD have happened is the government should have given them the funding in exchange for the patent 21:53 < jj> And I'm sure it was at least discussed 21:53 <@jokeefe> We are using a contract to say we shouldn’t protest the privatization of what is a public good? 21:54 < jj> I'd argue that moderna isn't the one at fault 21:54 < jj> If anything, we should be protesting the government 21:54 < jj> for spending money without getting the rights to the patent 21:54 < Joe__> I agree, more protests! 21:54 < srevilak> At any rate, back to the protest. I feel like I don't have enough information 21:55 < jj> Neither do I 21:55 < jj> I'd at least want to see how much they charge and how accessible the vaccine is 21:55 < jj> Information we don't have yet 21:55 <@jokeefe> Joe? 21:55 < srevilak> I see https://twitter.com/ftv_boston 21:55 < Joe__> motion to send Jokeefe to the protest to investigate! 21:56 < srevilak> They're asking for global access and an affordable price 21:56 < srevilak> I could support that 21:56 <@jokeefe> Is there a 2nd? 21:57 < srevilak> Apparently moderna wants to ask for $32--37 dose 21:57 < jj> https://www.axios.com/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-sec-disclosure-c8c491d1-0395-4c9d-8bf4-792246c6aa34.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100 21:57 < jj> I'd support this 21:57 <@jokeefe> srevilak, does that mean you support the protest? 21:57 < srevilak> Pfizer has a similar agreement with the govt but is planning on $20 dose 21:58 < jj> These seem crazy affordable and accessible 21:58 < srevilak> jokeefe: yes 21:59 <@jokeefe> Motion to support the protest. Is there a 2nd? 21:59 < srevilak> Moderna is getting a patent, but fed has right to the patent if moderna decides to stop manufacturing 21:59 < srevilak> second 21:59 <@jokeefe> all in favor? 21:59 < srevilak> aye 21:59 < Joe__> aye 21:59 <@jokeefe> aye 22:00 <@jokeefe> any opposed? 22:00 < srevilak> nays/abstentions? 22:00 < jj> nay 22:01 <@jokeefe> Malt? 22:01 < srevilak> I guess Malt abstains ... 22:01 < jj> lol 22:01 <@jokeefe> yes 22:01 <@jokeefe> motion passes. 22:02 < Joe__> Motion to adjourn 22:02 <@jokeefe> I will contact them and find out what future plans are 22:02 <@jokeefe> Are we still on for Sunday recording? 22:02 < srevilak> Yes, 7pm 22:03 < Joe__> aye 22:03 < srevilak> second to adjourn 22:03 <@jokeefe> Would 8pm be ok? I might be late 22:03 < srevilak> 8pm ok too 22:03 < Joe__> sounds good to me. 22:03 < srevilak> will post transcript 22:03 <@jokeefe> great. thanks