August 26th, 2020 IRC Meeting

Decisions/Endorsements

Endorse the Free the Moderna Vaccine protest

This Friday 2-5pm is a protest to Free the Moderna Vaccine. Suggest we endorse this protest since patents are likely to allow Moderna to make billions of dollars from a vaccine that was discovered with NIH scientists and paid for by US taxpayers.

Projects

Goals for Q3 2020:

• Organize meetups
• Revise platform
• Organize Fundraiser
• Organize candidate trainings

Bills

Federal

• EARN IT Act
  • Petition
• PATRIOT Act renewal

State

• Legislature extended session
• Push to get Right to Repair bill to a vote.
• Some of facial recognition moratorium is in the police reform bill

Video Newsletter/Podcast

Leader: Joseph

• Next pirate news recording scheduled for Sunday, 7pm unless changed

Democracy and Dogfood (Tech)

Set for 8/29, 11am-1pm

Regional Meetings/Events

Leader: jokeefe

• Surveillance Mapping Event
  • Come up with a how to video
    • Paper
    • iPhone
    • Android
  • Boston (jokeefe) - Sept 12th
  • Worcester (Malt) - Oct 17th
• Party Conference - Fall
• 2021 Boston Pride Festival
  • table booked
  • setup signup sheet
  • Announce
  • Need to purchase insurance
  • Need volunteer sign up form
  • Tie to an activity, mapping the CCTV cameras in Boston or along the Pride parade route?

Computer donations

• Rules
• Sign up form

Platform Discussion

Moved to 2020 Platform Discussion

Other To Do

• Application to PPI
• Post statement on Archive.org Suit
• Post statement on our support for Question 1: open access to vehicle telematics systems.
• Post statement on our opposition to S.4051 - Lawful Access to Encrypted Data Act.
• Post statement on retaining section 230 protections. Docket RM-11862

Tabled Projects

FOSS Tutorials

Worcester farm group is interested in having some FOSS tutorials. Perhaps:

• how to do basic labels in GIMP,
• work through a few sample spreadsheets related to seed cost and
• similarly applicable real-world situations, depending on the needs of the group

Basically how to do graph design & product management with open source tools. Malt will put together a one paragraph description of what we need and we can mail it out to ask pirates to help.

Upcoming Events

• Every Tuesday, 7-9pm, Mass MeshNet Tech Meeting, on-line
• 8/29, 11am-1pm, Democracy and Dogfood (Tech) Meeting, on-line
• 9/12, Boston Surveillance Mapping Outing
• 10/17, Worcester Surveillance Mapping Outing
• Fall, Party Conference

Participants

• jokeefe (James O’Keefe, Somerville)
• Joe (Joseph Onoroski, Lowell)
• jj (Jack Garbus, Waltham)
• srevilak (Steve Revilak, Arlington)

Observers

• davidd
• ChanServ
• hvxgr
• Deffy
• mikey

Summary

Moderna Vaccine protest

• https://www.facebook.com/events/314120066572032. Vaccine is for COVID-19.
• https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/17/moderna-soars-on-483-million-in-funding-for-coronavirus-vaccine.html
• Development was taxpayer funded. $1.53 billion for 100m doses.
• https://finance.yahoo.com/news/moderna-1-5b-federal-funding-165104518.html
• Long discussion on patents
• Organizer's twitter feed was helpful in clarifying their objectives: https://twitter.com/ftv_boston
• Motion to support protest. Motion carries, 3-1-1.

Pirate news recording

• Sunday 7pm (but may be shifted to 8pm)

Minutes

 
21:03 <@jokeefe> Agenda:
       https://masspirates.org/wiki/August_26th,_2020_IRC_Meeting
21:03 <@jokeefe> ids
21:04 < srevilak> Steve Revilak, Arlington
21:04 <@jokeefe> James O’Keefe, Somerville
21:04 < Joe> Joseph Onoroski, Lowell
21:04 < jj> Jack Garbus, Waltham
21:04 <@jokeefe> anything to add to the agenda?
21:05 <@jokeefe> Decisions/Endorsements
21:05 <@jokeefe> Endorse the Free the Moderna Vaccine protest?
21:06 <@jokeefe> Details at
       https://www.facebook.com/events/314120066572032
21:06 <@jokeefe> thoughts?
21:07 < srevilak> What kind of disease was the vaccine for?
21:07 <@jokeefe> COVID-19
21:07 < jj> Do we know how much they plan to charge
21:08 <@jokeefe> It hasn’t gone through trials yet, but patents are
       involved so much more than cost
21:08 < Joe> thing is, it takes years for safe testing. there is no way
       for us to know if this work or when the side affects will be....
21:08 < srevilak> ok, thx
21:08 < Joe> *what
21:09 < jj> I think more information would be needed
21:09 <@jokeefe> Research funding tends to be by the US government
21:10 < jj> But conducted by private companies looking to make money
21:10 <@jokeefe>
       https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/17/moderna-soars-on-483-million-in-funding-for-coronavirus-vaccine.html
21:11 < jj> looks like the money is to accelerate the manufacturing of
       the vaccine
21:11 <@jokeefe> If we pay for it, why should they profit from it?
21:11 < jj> My guess is that they wouldn't have accepted the money if
       they would not get any profit
21:11 < jj> the US government benefits heavily from the vaccine should
       it be developed
21:12 <@jokeefe>
       https://finance.yahoo.com/news/moderna-1-5b-federal-funding-165104518.html
21:12 < jj> It is funded with taxpayer money, but in a different sense
       than traditional funding
21:12 < jj> in that we are just trying to speed up the development
21:12 <@jokeefe> “the company received an award of up to $1.53
       billion from the U.S. government for supplying 100 million doses of its
       mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine candidate, mRNA-1273. The funding is for
       the manufacturing and delivery of initial 100 million doses of mRNA-1273
       including incentive payments for timely delivery of the product.”
21:13 < jj> so the government is trying to get dibs on the vaccine
       essentially
21:13 < srevilak> so $15.30/dose paid to Moderna
21:14 < jj> How are the vaccines getting delivered to consumers
21:14 < jj> I feel like if consumers still need to pay out of pocket
       for the vaccine then there is a problem
21:14 <@jokeefe> they will if they don’t have insurance
21:15 < Joe> prob just another corporate cash grab then....
21:15 <@jokeefe> thanks for doing the math srevilak
21:15 < jj> it looks like the government is purchasing 100 million doses
21:15 < jj> from that second link
21:15 < jj> would this vaccination not be supported by the state?
21:16 <@jokeefe> Price of HPV vaccine is $227.931
21:16 <@jokeefe>
       https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/awardees/vaccine-management/price-list/index.html
21:18 < jj> I'd say it's too soon to protest the privatized vaccine
21:18 < jj> But that's just me
21:19 < jj> More info is needed, especially on where those 100 million
       doses are going
21:19 < srevilak> Hopefully distribution of vaccines will be better than
       distribution of PPE early on
21:21 <@jokeefe> Another product that has too much economic concentration
21:23 <@jokeefe> I plan to go to the protest and I expect there will
       be another.
21:23 <@jokeefe> Can talk with them and coordinate
21:24 <@jokeefe> the organizers that is
21:24 < Joe> sounds good, could you bring a camera?
21:24 <@jokeefe> I plan to
21:24 < Joe> do a Pirate interview?!?!?!?
21:25 <@jokeefe> Good idea
21:27 <@jokeefe> Endorse?
21:28 < srevilak> Is the focus on costs or on patents?
21:28 <@jokeefe> The protest is on cost, though we could focus on patents
21:29 < srevilak> To me "free the vaccine" means that everyone should
       have unrestricted right to the patent
21:29 <@jokeefe> Technical difficulties Joe?
21:30 < Joe__> loading Mickey for the baby so I can "focus"
21:30 < srevilak> Joe is now on ipv6.  Go Joe :)
21:30 <@jokeefe> cool
21:30 < Malt> Sam capradae Worcester
21:30 <@jokeefe> ahoy Malt
21:30 < jj> I'm a new participant, but I would say to endorse efforts
       when people are losing out, right now no one is losing anything
21:30 < Malt> Sorry I'm late
21:30 < Joe__> yes, makes my mobile lifestyle much easier!
21:30 < Joe__> no worries Malt!
21:31 < srevilak> I don't have issue with them making money to cover
       research, manufacturing, or distribution costs
21:31 <@jokeefe> Discussing endorsing the Free the Moderna Vaccine protest
21:31 < srevilak> But if there's patent exclusivity involved, then I do
       have an issue
21:32 < jj> If they wanted to be the sole global provider of the vaccine,
       they could block certain orgs from accessing it
21:32 < srevilak> jj: yes, that's what a patent would allow them to do
21:32 < Malt> If they took public money the medicine is public
21:32 < jj> There's a million and one other people working on this
       vaccine though
21:32 < jj> And there could feasibly be multiple vaccines
21:32 < jj> They took public money to speed up manufacturing
21:33 <@jokeefe> Seems like we are spending $1.5-2 billion to create
       the vaccine, but structuring it as “paying to make 100 million doses”
21:33 < jj> But paid a decent amount in R&D I'd reckon
21:33 < jj> If the public gets 100 million doses free due to the funding,
       it would make sense to let them have the patent, at least for the
       short term
21:34 < jj> with "free" in quotes
21:34 <@jokeefe> Vaccine manufacturing costs tend to be less than $15/dose
21:34 < Malt> This has to be beyond greed or it can't be trusted
21:34 < srevilak> Patents are for 20 years
21:34 < Malt> No one should get rich off this
21:35 < jj> But they should get some reward for their efforts
21:35 < jj> Not billions of dollars
21:35 < Malt> Fuck that
21:35 < Malt> Their reward is we don't riot
21:35 < jj> But we need incentives to promote vaccine development in
       the future
21:35 < srevilak> Sorry 14 years, not 20.  My bad
21:35 < Malt> Like public funds?
21:36 < jj> No one's going to want to develop a vaccine if we force them
       to give up theirs
21:36 < Malt> Private enterprises do not spur vaccine Development
21:36 < Malt> Martin shkreli
21:37 < jj> A publicly funded vaccine would probably lag months behind
       a privatized one I'd argue
21:37 < Malt> You'd be wrong
21:38 < Malt> The vaccine needs to be distributed to workers, not the
       rich fucks who buy themselves a spot at the front of the line
21:38 <@jokeefe> Federal spending on COVID-19 vaccine
       candidates tops $9 billion, spread among 7 companies
       -https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/08/08/feds-spending-more-than-9-billion-covid-19-vaccine-candidates/5575206002/
21:39 <@jokeefe> We are paying their R&D
21:39 < Malt> This is too Important to trust to greed
21:39 < jj> And we are getting 100 million doses for the public it seems
21:39 < Malt> We deserve them all
21:39 <@jokeefe> If we are paying them to create it, we should get the
       patent, not a private company
21:40 < Malt> Another example of rentier mentality
21:40 < Malt> The rich feel entitled to skim off public funds for
       public effort
21:40 < jj> A decent amount of that money is actually going straight to
       manufacturing though
21:41 < Malt> This is a useless point to argue
21:41 < jj> We get that you hate the rich, but greed chasing is what
       gets us the vaccine in the first place
21:42 < jj> If they didn't get to keep the patent, would they still
       devote all their resources to vaccine development?
21:42 < jj> just for some short-term funding?
21:43 < Joe__> Hence why this system needs adjusting.
21:43 < srevilak> I would expect them to devote at least $1.53B
21:43 < jj> Not if they could spend an extra year conducting other,
       potentially more profitable research
21:43 <@jokeefe> If they are getting paid by the government, they
       would. Generics are created once patents expire after all
21:44 <@jokeefe>
       https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/the-real-reasons-jonas-salk-didnt-patent-the-polio-vaccine.html
21:45 < jj> This is a good link
21:46 < jj> I'm not against un-patented vaccines obviously
21:46 < jj> And I think it would be amazing if Moderna didn't patent it
21:46 <@jokeefe>
       https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/02/case-free-or-inexpensive-coronavirus-vaccine/
21:47 <@jokeefe> If we paid for it, why should they get the patent?
21:47 < jj> But if they patented it, but kept it affordable, I wouldn't
       have a problem with that
21:47 < jj> Because they most likely would not have accepted the payment
       if they couldn't
21:48 <@jokeefe> They would make a profit from the manufacture just like
       generics do. Just not super profits they would get now
21:49 < srevilak> If you consider the fed govt as employer and Moderna
       as a contractor developing a work for hire,
21:49 < srevilak> then there's plenty of precedent for fed govt keeping
       the patent
21:49 < jj> Not if the contract states otherwise
21:50 < srevilak> Of course, it depends on what the contract says
21:50 < jj> If I hire a contractor and tell them to create music for a
       show, but they own the rights to the music, I can't go back and remove
       those rights
21:50 < jj> Just because I paid them for it
21:50 < srevilak> But saying moderna wouldn't do the work if they couldn't
       get the patent seems equivalent saying modernas scientists would do the
       work if they couldn't get the patent
21:50 <@jokeefe> Disney would disagree
21:51 < Joe__> But if you hire a contractor to build your house, do they
       get to keep your house?
21:51 <@jokeefe> They get the copyright for works for hire
21:51 < jj> This is just a theoretical example to describe how you can't
       go back on an agreement
21:51 < srevilak> That's where the contract comes in.  In private
       industry, most will stipulate that the hiring compnay (not the sub)
       gets to retain the IP produced by the subs work
21:52 < jj> There are certainly cases like that
21:52 < jj> This contract would not appear to be one of them
21:52 < jj> What SHOULD have happened is the government should have
       given them the funding in exchange for the patent
21:53 < jj> And I'm sure it was at least discussed
21:53 <@jokeefe> We are using a contract to say we shouldn’t protest
       the privatization of what is a public good?
21:54 < jj> I'd argue that moderna isn't the one at fault
21:54 < jj> If anything, we should be protesting the government
21:54 < jj> for spending money without getting the rights to the patent
21:54 < Joe__> I agree, more protests!
21:54 < srevilak> At any rate, back to the protest.  I feel like I don't
       have enough information
21:55 < jj> Neither do I
21:55 < jj> I'd at least want to see how much they charge and how
       accessible the vaccine is
21:55 < jj> Information we don't have yet
21:55 <@jokeefe> Joe?
21:55 < srevilak> I see https://twitter.com/ftv_boston
21:55 < Joe__> motion to send Jokeefe to the protest to investigate!
21:56 < srevilak> They're asking for global access and an affordable price
21:56 < srevilak> I could support that
21:56 <@jokeefe> Is there a 2nd?
21:57 < srevilak> Apparently moderna wants to ask for $32--37 dose
21:57 < jj>
       https://www.axios.com/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine-sec-disclosure-c8c491d1-0395-4c9d-8bf4-792246c6aa34.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100
21:57 < jj> I'd support this
21:57 <@jokeefe> srevilak, does that mean you support the protest?
21:57 < srevilak> Pfizer has a similar agreement with the govt but is
       planning on $20 dose
21:58 < jj> These seem crazy affordable and accessible
21:58 < srevilak> jokeefe: yes
21:59 <@jokeefe> Motion to support the protest. Is there a 2nd?
21:59 < srevilak> Moderna is getting a patent, but fed has right to the
       patent if moderna decides to stop manufacturing
21:59 < srevilak> second
21:59 <@jokeefe> all in favor?
21:59 < srevilak> aye
21:59 < Joe__> aye
21:59 <@jokeefe> aye
22:00 <@jokeefe> any opposed?
22:00 < srevilak> nays/abstentions?
22:00 < jj> nay
22:01 <@jokeefe> Malt?
22:01 < srevilak> I guess Malt abstains ...
22:01 < jj> lol
22:01 <@jokeefe> yes
22:01 <@jokeefe> motion passes.
22:02 < Joe__> Motion to adjourn
22:02 <@jokeefe> I will contact them and find out what future plans are
22:02 <@jokeefe> Are we still on for Sunday recording?
22:02 < srevilak> Yes, 7pm
22:03 < Joe__> aye
22:03 < srevilak> second to adjourn
22:03 <@jokeefe> Would 8pm be ok? I might be late
22:03 < srevilak> 8pm ok too
22:03 < Joe__> sounds good to me.
22:03 < srevilak> will post transcript
22:03 <@jokeefe> great. thanks